Friday, March 27, 2009

Ukrainian CPR, Russian Life Support and the Boris Yeltsin Classification of Heart Failure III: The Insiders’ Revelation


For perhaps the first time since I started this ‘little corner’ of mine, I’m posting two articles that are not written by myself.

Medical students “Newly Circumcised” and “Moscow Medical Academy Student” would like to share their personal experience studying abroad.

May you lend the two of them a listening ear. I’m reposting their comment in a verbatim state.

Insider I: Newly Circumcised

With all these heated up debate bout CSMU, I guess its time someone from CSMU stands out n clarify things for real.

Firstly i want to prove to all the readers out there (esp CSMU students); I'm not an imposter who plans to destroy CSMU's image.

1) Last week we had Amazing Race Simferopol where all the stupid participants sang "Negaraku" in terrible falsetto voices all evening.

2) MSC president- Mayurran. MCA president- Baba.

3) See Choo is doing hair cuts at weekends at the 1st hostel 4th floor common hall.

4) All the hostel are located at - Rechnaya Street beside the Park Gagarina with the stupid Prom night poster now on 4th Hostel wall.

5) 5th hostel "kiosk" selling Samosa at 2.60 grivs.

CSMU students reading this will know I'm not an imposter.

I'm a "REAL" CSMU student.

Now lets begin with the main issue - why Ukrainian grads lack clinical knowledge?

The answers to this enigmatic question are-poor non-practical teaching systems n lazy, idoitic students.

Here's the details.

For clinical year students the schedule is 1 or 2 lectures a day with 1 class. Needless to say, the lectures r conducted by old Russian uncles or hags in Russian language, e.g Infectious Disease lecture which obviously are boring n totally USELESS.

Now, about the classes. In Malaysia classes r conducted as ward rounds where the clinical instructor n med students discuss, examine n perform clinical procedures together. In CSMU, the students go to hospitals too but everything else is TOTALLY different!!!
After reaching the hospitals, students will go to designated classrooms - so called " uchebnaya komnata". Then, the lecturer will come in, discuss about the tasks, make a break, continue discussion n the students will be free.

We don really get to examine patients because the patients are reluctant, n because the lecturers are lazy!

Why the patients are reluctant?

Because we're foreigners, we come from less civilized country, we're "DIRTIER".

Thus, in average for 1 cycle, students will only see 1 or 2 patients.

I really mean "SEE", most students just go to the patient, converse in broken Russian, make some short notes n that's all.

No clinical inspection, no careful analysis of lab results.

Even if there is, the clinical examination is "CINCAI".

Before the end of cycle, students will do case reports (case histories) which are actually "Copy n Paste" work of other reports. Worse still, we can "Make-up" any fake symptoms, lab results to fit the diagnosis. Cool ha?

What's way COOL is, sometimes we just take other peoples case reports, change the name of the patient n hand it to the lecturer.

U guys must be curious right-how come the lectures didn't notice it?

Of course they wouldn't know, because all the case reports ends up as "Free Toilet Papers" for the lecturers. Unless, they read while they're in the loo, how do u expect students to be competent when the system is so corrupted n vain?

2nd problem-the students themselves. Most students here are "EXTREMISTS".

Here's why.

Some are Extreme Religionists, all they do is sembahyang, attend Bhajans,go church services,Dharma classes. They would even skip classes to attend religious activities.

Some are Business Freaks. Instead of studying they waste time selling stuffs or services. Some sell Char Siew Pau, some Rojak, some Chicken Rice. Some work as "Flight Agents", Avon direct sales, manicure experts, barber n artists.

Then there is the Clubbing Maniacs. These bunch go to night clubs, dance, smoke, get drunk, fight with some Russian strangers. The hardcore ones take drugs e.g Marijuana n visit brothels. Yes. Some CSMU students r STD infected!!!

Another group - Rich Bastards. These people r the pampared, spoilt brats of rich Dato or Tan Sri. They'll play their PSP(Playsation Pocket) during lectures n classes. Download or watch movies, play PS or Nintendo wii at their rooms. There is virtually no academic conscience in them.

Luckily, there is-Kiasu Nerds. These students know of their incompetency - the result of the system. And are trying their best to improve themselves. They study Malaysian protocol books, watch n practice clinical examination methods e.g from Macleod or Talleys. But what they're doing is of limited value since real clinical skills come from hands-on experience not some video, or healthy friends to act as ill patients. Well,at least they put in effort to improve themselves.

Unfortunately though, they r the minority. They're being "Oppressed"! Students from other categories ridicule them, alienate them, some even criticize them; labelling them as nerds,geeks,No Life.

These people are good students STPM pointers 3.7-3.9. Some of them were neglected a course of their choice even with good results. Instead they were given courses like Aquaculture, Enviromental Science, Forestry which were not one of the 8 choices selected in the IPTA form.

I, myself, am a victim to the goverments so-called "Meritocracy" even with 3A1B n band 5 for my STP. Worse is our parents are tricked by the agents into sending us to study in Ukraine. They created wonderful yet obviously implausible lies like - it is the best uni in Ukraine, it is world recognized-u can work anywhere in the world with the degree. Feel sad for all the nerds, including myself.

If there really is a time machine, i would never, never, came to study here.

Well,I can only blame bad Karma.

About the students who come here on government funds.

Yes. It's true. They're Bumiputras on MARA or Yayasan scholarships.

How much? About USD 500 per month about 2500 grivens.That's quite a sum.

How do they spend these tax-payers money?

Easy.

Go to Euro-trips n buy whatever they like. I've witnessed them buying Prada shoes from France trip; MAN-U jersey,Nike boots from England trip. Some smoke, take drugs n frequent high class restaurants.

Some just use the extra to get married.

Yes. This is true. MARRIAGE. Imagine.

A pair of med-students with no income marrying.

Guess who's paying for the Kenduri n Euro-trip honeymoon costs?

After some sex the wife gets pregnant, gives birth in CSMU. The child is left at the nursery while parents attend lectures etc.

Guess who's paying for the nursery n baby stuffs?

As a conclusion, I sincerely hope the MMC will implement a qualifying exam for all students alike. Those who fail should be given a workshop or training period. I don't care even if i have to pay. Because i don't want to "kill" my future patients. And i request senior officers not to "stereotype" all CSMU graduates.

Not all are stupid like the Surya. If given proper guidance we can at least, i fervently believe doctors of satisfactory level.

After posting this, I'll probably be in "Extreme Danger".

Some macha would probably want to whack me for good now.

Luckily, I can defend myself with some tae-kwan-do.

Haiya!!!


Insider II: Moscow Medical Academy Student

Sad but true.

I am a medical student from Russia as well.

Best part is, i or rather WE did not choose to come here.

We are all scholars sent here by either JPA or MARA.

If you were to google "Moscow Medical Academy" it is ranked by UNESCO as the second best medic Uni in the world.

DO NOT be fooled by this. Cuz i was one who was fooled as well.

Only after i landed in Moscow did i know that "2nd best in the world" is specifically granted to the Russian Medium of this medical school.

We Malaysians are doing the English medium...& i must say it's an utter shame that the Government actually spent millions of tax payers money to send us all here to study medicine.

The teaching facilities/methods of the English medium here is way below par...way below that of a 3rd world country even.

Some classrooms here even resemble the ones we have in our kampungs in rural areas such as Sabah & Sarawak. (so much for sending us here all the way to Moscow to EXPERIENCE this!)

For your information, this so called Moscow Medical 'Academy' DOES NOT even have a campus to begin with. Classes are scattered all over Moscow. (eg:Klang,PJ,Subang,Kajang,etc.).

We students are forced to travel everyday via Metro, or by foot or bus to attend classes. Also, there are many a time when we would have traveled so far to attend classes only to be told once we've reached there that classed are canceled!

The Government could have spent the money more wisely to educate us all in M'sia/Singapore/India. We get paid almost USD700 per month which i believe is a huge amount of tax payers money.

However, i doubt we will bring back much knowledge to be able to help the patients back home.

While there are some of us who save & spend the money wisely due to the high cost of living here, there are a huge majority of private & sponsored students who come here juz to ENJOY.

FREQUENT Alcohol parties, weekend getaways, world tours, & shopping sprees are very common among students here.

The lifestyle of many Malaysians changes tremendously once they came here. They behave even worse than the "Mat Sallehs" here. Malaysian girls here for instance would walk around ever so skimpily leaving nothing to the imagination (even during winter!)

Watever happen to the MALAYSIAN CULTURE?

Many here have even lost their virginity at the young tender age of 18 or 19 simply because a guy or girl can walk in ever so easily into the rooms of the opposite sex. Believe it or not,we have heard SEX sounds even!

Many Malaysian medical students behave as though they have no self dignity or watsoeva. (However, they potray the best behaviour once they land in Malaysia like as though they are the best Malaysian angels...sadly, we all know their true colours when they are here in Moscow. HYPOCRITES!!!).

These Malaysians are surely to be huge dissapointments to their families as well as to the nation.Exams & studies are the LEAST priority/favourite of many who are here. I wonder why did some people choose to study medicine in the very 1st place.

Let me also give u an insight of the education system here. You want to know why the majority of Russian grads are so incompetent & useless?

Well,1st & foremost we can get away with cheating ever so easily during tests & exams. You may ask how. Many students here aren't bothered about being honest for themselves. Many juz merely do the bare minimum of studying & copy their friend's answers or directly from the books during tests/exams. These students fail to realise that they are only cheating themselves.

The one who helps with the cheating is also going to lose out in the end once he/she is out of medic school & into the real working world. Another method which works really well for the girls is simply to shed some crocodile TEARS during tests/exams & instantly the lecturer/tutor would grant her a mere PASS...it's still a pass u know (better than a fail). How is this fair to some students like me who slog day & night mugging & studying extremely hard with the simple intention of graduating as competent doctors?
After all, these cheaters would be graduating with a MD certificate as well & turn out to be the bad apples in the healthcare system in Malaysia & thus leading Senior Doctors to generalise & say that ALL Russian Grads are INCOMPETENT!

Does anyone have any idea how frustrating this is?

Many students who sit for exams/tests earlier would simply snap a photo of the different set of questions & answers & then distribute it to the rest of the students who have yet to sit for their exams.

How is this helping anyone? Can u even call this an EXAM?

Does it fit the definition of an exam?

So,can u imagine wat kind of Doctors we're producing here?

A bunch of cheaters, liars, & irresponsible future doctors! That's the TRUTH!

Now, no wonder countries like the UK refuse to accept Russian Medical grads for their Postgraduate courses.

Simply because we have never even sat for a PROPER exam per say throughout our 6years of study here.

Look at the UK universities/colleges, do they even allow any student of theirs to bring in PDA's, camera handphones, bags, books into the exam venue?

Do they allow any exam candidate to communicate with another fellow candidate once the question paper has been distributed?

Do students know the exact sample of questions & answers prior to the exams?

HELL NO! These only happen in good old Mother Russia!

So, Wake up people!!!

So, to those of you all who are planning to send any of your offsprings to Russia for a Medical Degree, please, im begging you, think again.

You're not only going to lose your money, but also perhaps the good name & dignity of your family.

This is merely an opinion of mine & not directed to insult, degrade or humiliate anyone. I believe there is nothing wrong in sharing my opinion.

POTS’s disclaimer: Posting the two testimonies above does not in any way imply that I agree wholeheartedly with the writers’ views. However, I sincerely applaud the two brave souls for having the courage to concede weaknesses when they are present and to go against the tide of mob rage.

Following the above post, medical student Ken Lui alleged that his identity was stolen by an impostor. I have removed the relevant details. The posting remains for discussion sake.



90 comments:

Anonymous said...

I too am a scholar in Russia & I hope someone forwards this two testimonials to MMC, JPA & MARA. The government should stop sending scholars to countries which conduct the medical courses in foreign languages.

Immediate derecognization of Russian universities should be done, instead of 'forcing' the Russian universities to allow us to do our "clinical practicals" during summer in Russia. It's a bad idea , we definitely will not learn enough during the course. As it is, some hospitals with sucky lecturers don't even bother teaching during 'Therapy' lessons, how do you expect them to even bother about 'summer practical students'.

For those all non local medical graduates, MMC should help conduct a 'refresher course' before we start work as houseman, helping us a little to adapt to the "malaysian style" of handling patients etc etc. I know you can't teach everything in a short period of time, but at least it will better than having idiots starting work, and not knowing how to save a coding patient.

Anonymous said...

great!applause!collaboration of 3 cowardly blogs . POTs, i know u are lonely and sad, expressing your bitterness by blogging is a great way of psychotherapy , really, but the 3rd sequel? and you applauding these students? brave? are u sure? the student complaining bout having to walk and not having a campus is merely katak bawah tempurung who has obviously been pampered her whole life now unable to accept the COLD HARD TRUTH. Worries bout Unisex hostels, no campus, kiasu-ing. i agree this MMA malay girl (who is jealous when other girls wear sexy clothes and the guys that she likes talks to the sexy girls) should definitely stop wasting our taxpayer money.btw i wrote a comment on her blog yesterday but was disapproved. Instead she approved a comment that is trying to destroy somebody's name (obviously another bitter person trying to get revenge) How can mara and JPA send a student who cant even bear walking to classes?

kEn said...

I'm the real Ken u blogged about.

I didn't leave the above comment as you wrote about in this current post. There is an imposter writing on behalf on me.

This is my real account and you can contact me to verify.

Anonymous said...

Courageous indeed... But truly scary that these lads are so willing to put themselves so highly. Sometimes it is essential that these people take a look the mirror. Have the balls to say all these things... but also MAN UP!

Anonymous said...

POTS! You are famous in Russia and Ukraine now!

BusinessFreak said...

Whoever you are,Nice blog you have here. I couldn't help but to laugh when i read about the booking-only hairstylist See Choo.

There are somethings i agree and some i do not regarding the post of the newly-circumsized Ken Yi(although we do not really care about his prepuce) but i will not discuss it here. I seriously hope CSMU students should start studying after reading this post because we truly lack the knowledge and skill(clerking being the 1st since Malaysian patients don't speak broken russian) to even survive our 1st day of internship. I for one felt like an idiot while doing my summer attachment in Malaysia but lucky for me the doctors from HTAR were more than willing to point me in the right direction. The abundant free time in our 6th course is actually for us to catch up with whatever we've missed in our 5 years of study and to learn the differences in Malaysian protocols and classifications. Stop wasting your time and wake up fast!

KenYi, not to worry, i support you mentally(you are on your own physically)!! BTW, you do not know Tae Kwon Do, you are just a ballet-karate student..

NoName said...

Your English ain't perfect too, so it means u are using broken English to communicate with your patients?

Please briefly describe what is the difference between you and those Russia graduates. And also under what kind of system were you bred? You are so sure that you have no guiltiness while you are criticizing others?

And the "Confessions of Russia medical students' u posted are not convincing too, they sound like somethings that are badly made up with tonnes of flaws rather than some true stories you claimed. It would be best if you can ask the confessors to show themselves if these are really their accounts. Or else what you are doing are nothing more than framing and slandering.

I assume that you are really different from those Russia graduates. As a medical officer, I think you should be more sensible. You should be doing things that are more meaningful instead of stirring up all the problems in your anonymous blog. This is not going to help. I hope that you really are a person with conscience. If you are, kindly please remove things that are weaved up, make an apology and stop the verbal fight, because you are just wasting the internet space and interrupting the improvement of Malaysia's medical level. You should know what I'm talking.

And I want to say, everybody is learning regardless how old and how experienced you are. Don't tell me you have stopped learning things. Everybody makes mistakes. If you find HOs that are really incompetent, you should report and complain to affiliated authority and request them to stop their postings. I think that this is more meaningful for you to spend your time rather than blogging about your soundless opinions that can-only-be-raised-thru-anonymous blog.

And also, culprits to be blamed are neither money-minded agents nor some system of uni but students' attitude. You said that scholars are assigned to Russia, they have no choice. Let's say if they were not assigned to Russia but UK or some places that you are proud of, I think they will also be cheating there.'Leopards can never change its spots'-I can say that it is their nature. At that time, people will start to discriminate those uni that you reckon which can provide good medical education. It is the students who are cheapening their own value. Is there any professors in our local uni that is on par with Russia's professors?

Well, I'm not siding anybody. I came out with this comment just because I can tell that you don't have any idea of what are going on.

trixie said...

it's a bitter truth unfortunately..

but this CSMUgeek and other readers need to know and understand, that marriage is something that is part from this csmu corrupted system u felt disgust about.

i am a real csmu too and i know who're u talking about.please realize that marriage save people from sleeping around,having STD and unwanted child..marriage is the safest and purest way to satisfy physiological and soul needs.

dear readers,those who are married maintain their studies,attend their lectures and classes..they are good students before and after marriage!!

governmnt give money in certain amount and its up to them to manage it..they will cut and save here and there..how do they get it at first place?? duuhhh..with good results..how they continue receiving it?..duuhh..good result..again..! they too work their assess u know..

and they still have parents looking out for them..so dont worry..the kenduri is on them(the parents)..like any other parents ;)

and i think u are a real geek..congratulation! bcoz marriage and babies during studies are not a bizarre thing in UK,US,Japan,Australia,NZ and wherever except in ur tiny world.dont give crap like 'we should focus bla bla study all the time bla bla..' cuz there's no reason can stop u unless u said it is..

plus..hmphh..u should have friends from other med univ overseas..i heard they can even get bored to death!! definitely not here..u cant get bored in csmu ;)

it's a bitter truth but the system doesnt only occur here..not only in soviets univ..c'mon dont be too anti-communist and forgot to look elsewhere..

i adore one specialist at the hosp where i did my attachment when she said..
''hmmm..student oversea,same je..awak grad la dari ukraine ke,indonesia ke,ireland ke..masing2 pun tercengang2 xreti buat keje..''

hehe..sorry ireland peeps..but thats not the point..the point is..the starting is rough,hard and bitter despite where we graduate..

xoxo said...

yeah i agree with the first anonymous!
1) stop sending students to places where ENGLISH is half-alien.

u cant expect local patient to just accept foreign student touching here and there..especially students who understand only less then quarter of the conversation..:P

2)for irreversible cases like me, its GREAT to have a refresher course to adapt with malaysian system

anTon said...

Hello,

I'm russian medstudent for sure.

I've to agree with "the lacks of russian system".

But, what can we do? Can we as a medstudent can change the system? Yeah..even Boris Yeltsin knows the answer!

So, the only thing we can change is ourselves.
Why do you blame Russian language when you suck speaking russian?I believe some medical students here are having "english supremacy" syndrome as they refuse to learn russian and start reading russian textbooks. if you compare russian textbook and eng textbook for undergraduates, can you spot the differences? i bet you can. Eng - full of colors and pic wif little explanation. Rus - complete explanation from A to Z.

Yes, we stay in "uchebnaya komnata" (classroom) for most of the time. But, why can't you ask the teacher to bring u to see patients?

Lack of practical skills isn't the issue. Why don't you apply for elective postings during summer holiday? 2 months isn't enough if you work hard days and nights?

So, stop complaining. Find the ways out of this problems. Do you want to waste your time here complaining and hoping one day you wake up and the system suddenly changes?

POTS : what is your speciality? i hope i can send you russian med books.. and of course with rus-eng dictionary..so that you'll know that there are tonnes of knowledge in Boris Yeltsin's land.

Malaysian health system isn't perfect after all. Even our neighbour do not recognize Malaysian medical degree!

Anonymous said...

Instead of complaining- improve yourself and become the next Lee Wei Lim- CSMU graduates working in malaysia are doing good with several of them already in the specialization programme in malaysia-Urology,Pathology and etc.

Few other CSMU graduates have already made it through USMLE exams in the USA.

When soo many can make it- why do you still cry- Believe in yourself, not the karma brother-

The History after graduation from CSMU of Ukraine.


Lee Wei (Anthony) Lim was born in 1980 in Malaysia. After the completion
of his secondary school education in 1998, he chose to pursue medicine in
Crimean State Medical University, Ukraine with the support of his adopted father, Mr. Ong Soon
Chye. He obtained his medical degree in June 2005, unlike so many of his
contemporaries he did not return immediately to Malaysia for his medical
practice, instead he went to the Netherlands, Maastricht University for a
master degree in affective neuroscience. Firstly, he worked as a research
assistant at Vijverdal Academic Anxiety Center under the supervision of
Prof. Dr. Eric Griez and Dr. Koen Schruers; and later at the Maastricht
University Medical Center and School for Mental Health and Neurosciences
in the departments of neurosurgery and neuroscience under the guidance of
Prof. Dr. Harry Steinbusch, Prof. Dr. Veerle Visser-Vandewalle, Dr. Yasin Temel
and Dr. Arjan Blokland. Two years later in July 2007, he obtained his
master degree. And in May 2007 he was officially appointed as a Marie Curie
Fellow to carry out his PhD study in neuroscience. In recognition of his
motivation for scientific research, he received several international awards for
instance the "*Dutch Education Learning at Top level Award*"
(DELTA) and the "*International Brain Research Organization*" (IBRO) grant.

After the accomplishment of his PhD project in 2008, he was awarded the
"*Kootstra Talent Fellowship*" to continue his scientific career in the arena of
translational neuroscience from the laboratory findings to the clinical
application. His main research works were focused on the electrophysiology
aspect of deep brain stimulation and immunohistochemistry of the
periaqueductal gray in fear and anxiety disorders. He is currently working
as a medical research neuroscientist in the field of electrophysiology for
mood and anxiety disorders in the departments of neuroscience and
neurosurgery of Maastricht University, the Netherlands.
International collaboration has always been part of the scholarly endeavour, he is
also pursuing with colleagues around the world, mainly universities of
Oxford, Bordeaux, Ataturk and Samsun, as well as Lundbeck and
Medtronic research corporates.


*My current position:* Medical Research Neuroscientist
*Current Projects:* Electrophysiology on Mood and Depressive Disorder
*Abstract of current project:*
These recent advances in the field of mood disorder predict the existence
of a disrupted neural circuit that can be influenced by DBS both in patients
and animals models, thereby introducing a novel concept. We combine the
anatomical, electrophysiological, neurochemical, and behavioural
techniques in animal models. Collectively, through this approach we will test the
hypothesis that the anti-depressant effect of DBS of several
beuroanatomical structures are mediated by a neural circuit leading to modified 5-HT
levels.
The approach (plan of investigation) provides a multi-level,
interdisciplinary investigation of how electrical stimulation of the
specific structure affects the neural circuit of mood-related behaviours.
The sections will have the following primary objectives:
1. To identify which neural circuit(s) is influenced by DBS.
2. To test the hypothesis that stimulation changes 5-HT-dependent
behavioural outputs linked to mood and that these effects involve the same
neural circuits as in 1.


Kind regards,
Dr. Lim

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the other insider said...

don't take the hiatus and hide away. you opened this can of worms. you deal with every creepy crawly that's gonna come your way!

here's an insight from another insider. one who actually finds themself benefiting from having to study in russia (and i don't mean that in the way that it allows me to become a doctor without the qualifications! i'm talking about all the skills you pick up along the way and all the brilliant researches you have access to and the abundance of information and chances to be succesful at something you're passionate about).

PUBLISH THIS:

try studying chemistry without mendeleev's periodic table.

or understanding behavioural science without ivan pavlov's theory of conditioning.

russians have definitely come up with a lot more discoveries than malaysians.

let me tell you why:

malaysians sit around and whine all the time!

so, you got sent abroad to study in a foreign land. regardless of whether it was your own choice, or whether some agent duped you, you are now here, SO BEST MAKE THE BEST OF IT.

here's an opportunity to learn a foreign language (or two!). and not just any language, mind you. one anywhere the CCCP once had influenced, from the scandinavians, europeans, all the way across central asia, china, vietnam and your then you have your scattered speakers in the US and populating the regions down under as well.

instead of griping over this fact, perhaps the time would be better spent mastering the language?!!

YES, things down here could be better, but if you MAKE THE EFFORT to push your teacher to teach you or if that doesn't work, approach another teacher who would.

there are tonnes of resources everywhere. the internet. ebooks. videos. MAKE USE OF THAT.

stop complaining of a lack practical skills. THAT'S WHAT SUMMER PRACTICALS ARE FOR. not to punch in, go for drink at the mamak stall, punch out.

YOU OPEN THAT MOUTH YOU SO USE SO MUCH FOR COMPLAINING and ASK TO BE TAUGHT!!!

patients here will allow you to see them and learn from them. russian patients are by far the most educated patients you can come across. they are fully aware of their own diagnostics, the procedures carried out on them, the drugs they are (were) prescribed. HOWEVER, you must respect them and not make them feel uncomfortable.

the malaysians have this ANNOYING (and childish) habit of SPEAKING IN MALAY.

'oh, tengok kaki orang tu!'
'hehehehahahahah'

ANY PATIENT WOULD FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE BY THIS!! they may not understand about what is being said exactly, but surely, standing there exposed and naked, with all their imperfection (and ailments), the last thing they would want to hear is a group of people snickering!

you can blame the government. you can blame the corrupt administration. but the one that should be told off: are the malaysian students and their idiocratic ways.

taking the easy step out, by copying. helping each other out during exams. relying on notes from seniors instead of coming with something of their own. or just being a close minded git with no aspiration to improve oneself for the better, the greatest sin a human being could commit.

for the MMA student who so proudly hung out his or her (her?) dirty laundry for all to see. there is nothing wrong with trips abroad or weekend getaways. hello: BROADENING ONE'S HORIZON?!

so what if someone engages in sex? or get's married. that's up to them. note: PERSONAL LIFE! if they can do all this and mantain their results and graduate as the best doctor they can be, they should be left to themselves then to do as they please.

please realise that ALL STUDENTS everywhere take university as a time to EXPLORE and DISCOVER who they are, and aslong as they don't let this affect their main aim: THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH IT. heck, if they do screw up, this will then serve as an opportunity to learn from the experience and BECOME A BETTER PERSON.

if you young ones can't leave your prejudices and small town mentalities at the malaysian border, don't bother coming overseas and embarrasing yourself.

open your eyes. learn. take the good. abhor the bad.

QUIT COMPLAINING SO MUCH.

russia has so much to offer. you just have to work at reaping the information (and not be SPOON FED) and coaxing people that have access to helping you (and by help i don't mean helping you do exams or preparing your cheat sheets for you, i mean doctors and aspiranturas [~MOs] that can help teach you the skill you need).

change your attitude towards things! everything else is kinda out of your power anyway.

as i said before: MAKE DO BEST WITH WHAT YOU HAVE.

you can't always get what you want, but you can get what you need if you try.

you wanted a education that would gurantee you to be the best dr you can be (or for some: a medical degree). you got a spot in russia. you need the best education that would gurantee you to be the best dr you can be. SHUT YOUR TRAP, WORK HARD and TRY GETTING WHAT YOU NEED.

survivalist,
dr sarcophagus

Anonymous said...

step out from your pathetic small world, POTs..
the more u write the more u disgust yourself..

MMA Medstudent said...

I stumbled across your blog few years back and to be honest it did inspire me to strive harder to be a better student to eventually become a better doctor.

Unfortunately, you are only human and by publishing these two posts written by 2 short-sighted students, need I say more?

I too am a student of MMA.

It is undoubtedly one of the better medical schools out there. For people who have a direction and aim in what they want to achieve as doctors at least. However, being set in Moscow, the capital of Russia (which I MUST STRESS was under the reign of communism for almost a century!) one should at least be prepared to deal with the complexity of the Russian system!

Naturally, mere 17,18,19 year olds hoping for the best and simply blindly believing that by going to Russia to study medicine in English are bound to be disillusioned from the moment their planes land to the moment they realize that there might not even be a place for them to live in. Russia unfortunately is that cold and unforgiving to the uninformed and the ignorant.

And who do these young disillusioned juniors(who have not even the basic knowledge or understanding of the russian language) look up to for guidance and advice? To the disillusioned seniors who frankly don't know any better, save for a marginally better understanding of the russian language.

If we're looking for someone or something to blame, the list is endless.

Frankly, I agree with dr sarcophagus. MMA has so much to offer as long as you take the initiative and go the extra mile. Doctors here are more than willing to give extra classes and lessons as long as they can fit us in their schedule.

The main problem lies in the mindset of the students. They complain if the teacher turns up late for class(classrooms which are set in the hospital - the teacher being real doctors with real patients whom might actually be suffering from some complication or other) and then complain even more when the teacher actually sits and teaches/gives a lecture that extends hours after the actual set time (say instead of ending lecture/class at 4pm, they end at 6pm)

-Most just want to stick to the syllabus and that's it.
-Most don't want to know more than they need to.
-Most don't even read more than the previously prepared seniors' notes. (a.k.a ONLY senior's notes NOTHING else)
-Most can't be bothered to prepare for class.
-Most can't even be bothered to prepare for the FINAL exams.

Cheating has become a culture here. A "cool" thing to do. Why? Because no one's there to re-inforce the rules. And even if there are, there aren't enough teachers to control the cheating crowd.

You have to take into consideration that most probably(note that this is my own opinion), the Russian educators have a mindset of their own - whereby they would still teach - however, whether or not the students choose to learn, the choice is up to the students, no?

After all, by now everyone is considered an adult. Adults who are more than capable of making their own choices in life.

Unfortunately, immature, ignorant people let loose in an environment full of choices are like sheep. Sheep who blindly follow what they assume to be the shepherd. Meaning they more often than not, conform to what the majority says is right.

And as we all know, the world is a bell curve. The majority consists of average people with average perceptions and when you take the average idea and distribute amongst the ignorant here, in MMA - You get incompetent future doctors who will, forever be blaming others for their own shortcomings and lack of interest.

Russia is like a rough diamond. To the undiscerning eye, it is but a clear disfigured stone.

Oh, and did I mention? We get free books here - from the library. Pity how no one really bothers to open them. And how studying from more than 1 source is a burden even to those who do study.

Anonymous said...

One of my sabahan friends yelling dis after read your blog..

" Budu baa kau ni... Sial tul.. ko ni mesti cina kan.. ko ingat ko bulih pagang ka sabah tu?? Silap laa kau ni tau.. HaHa "

i was wondering at that time... Ha??? Wut's the matter bro? Wut Happeng???

Hahahaha......

Stop complaining bro/sis Pots.. So wut can you do to replace all of dis?? yeah.. some of your points are true... but.. some of them.. you just blow it out without understand wut are you trying to say..

then my frinds shouted again..

" Budu punya anak kina surang tu tau... "

Yeah....... he seems not to agree with your thought..

but.. dis is free world.... just express your great and brilliant ideas to others in your blog..

haha.. im sabahan too.. n im russian student.. n final year..

yupp... we'll meet then...

p/s :- Ko ni pambangkang ka?? haha.. sia pun pambangkang baa..

FengY said...

You know what, anonymous readers who decide to leave comments should at least leave a better identity rather than anonymous.

It's hard to keep track of the debate with so many anonymous around =)

Taptrick said...

To everybody who's who here, whether they are CSMU Med students or cowardly anonymouses,shut up and listen.

I'm a final year student from USM, so-called APEX university, Kubang Kerian Branch where they train all medical and dental graduates. I have many friends and seniors who are now doctors around most major Malaysian Hospitals and from what I have heard from them, Russian/Ukrainian Medical Grads...basically slow or suck at taking history, suck clinically and grossly incompetent.

Oh, let me correct that. I dont have to far actually. Even my senior lecturers have complained of the skills of these RUssian graduates. I have HO and MO friends in USM's Teaching Hospital, and I can say, that the skills of those foreign bred doctors are at most horrendous to start of with and most are grossly incompetent!

So far, it is safe to say that the general view of the medical community in Malaysia on Russian Medical graduates are that they are all very incompetent and shouldnt have been allowed to practice without first going through a battery of test! Thats all to it.

Just face it, by the time you Russian Medical students graduate, you guys are no better than our Malaysian 3rd year medical undergrads.

Even if you do grad and work, you would have this stigmatic view from your seniors or work colleagues on your competency and skills.

I applaud the bravery of those who "exposed" the inadequacy of the system in Russian and Ukraine. It takes guts and balls to do that. Even more so to stake a claim on your incompetency.

And to this POTS hater. If you're a medical undergrad, pls show some respect, this guy's older than you are and he's your senior. He knows more than you and is probably a far better doctor/clinician/surgeon than you would freakin' ever be.

And if you're a nobody, instead of criticising pots, why not do something yourself. And put up a name or something. You got balls to talk shit here, you've surely got balls to put up a name.

Product of the System said...

Trixie,

I'm not too convinced that marriage is a way to avoid STD.

I just treated three couples today for non-gonoccocal urethritis.

I think the writers' point is that it is inappropriate for Malaysian taxpayers to foot the bill for childcare as well.

Surely you wouldn't disagree with that?

Product of the System said...

anTon,

Once again, do read my previous posts to know that I am one who is all too familiar with our pathetic Malaysian healthcare service.

I have never belittle the nation of Russia or her education.

Truthfully though, the performance of MOST (as opposed to ALL) of the Russia medical graduates is simply below par.

Product of the System said...

Anonymous from Sabah,

Seriously, give yourself a pseudonym of sorts.

I can't address so many anonymous.

Anyway, your sis can say anything and everything she wants.

Try to avoid associating my views with my ethnicity though.

Enough of racism in Malaysia!

Unless of course, your sis is a firm believer in bumiputra-ism.

Product of the System said...

Feng Y,

I can echo your comment a million times over.

Do remember that these anonymous POTS-haters are illiterate and very uncouth, though.

Regards.

Product of the System said...

Anonymous who posted about Dr. Lim,

One drop of water does not the ocean make.

I will no downplay the success and capability of a fellow Malaysian.

Nevertheless, should I say University Teknologi Malaysia (UTM) is a terrorist school simply because one professor ended up as the mastermind behind the Bali attack?

Product of the System said...

Taptrick,

You are so gonna get it from those anonymous fellas.

Oh well, look on the bright side.

Your blog readership will increase faster than the Nikkei index.

All the best in final year.

Product of the System said...

MMA Medstudent,

You said it yourself.

It's 'MOST' not 'ALL'.

With the attitude and perspective that you have, you will go far, quite literally already in fact.

:)

Glad I got out of there said...

taptrick,

Don't you diss us Russian students. There's a reason why some of us tried so hard to leave home to attain the medical degree down here, putting up with all the crap that comes along with it (other lazy malaysian students....re all accusations mentioned above):

THE EDUCATION SYSTEM IN MALAYSIA SIMPLY SUCKS.

You are probably some government scholar. Or you did your matrix. got it easy all along. spoon fed. senior lecturers that probably followed the same path you are taking.

I am a straight A student, was rejected for a scholarship, then a STPM 4.0. Again, apparently I wasn't good enough for local unis. My friends in matrix got into med school without even having to take the effort to ace their exams.

Penniless, I chose Russia.

The administration has disappointed me. My fellow Malaysians have disappointed me. But, I HAVE NOT DISAPPOINTED ME.

I did not jump on the bandwagon of cheats and take the easy way out. I did not pay for exam grades. I slough day and night knowing how hard it was to get where I am today and how hard it will be to get where I want to be (especially after POT's divine intervention), having to prove myself to others (like yourself) who will condescendingly assume I got my vodka degree for peanuts.

Insult those that you know have failed to attain what they came here to get: KNOWLEDGE.

You know...I'm all for a local entrance exam. Let's see how our Malaysian grads will succeed in those.

But then again, you guys would probably be spoon fed and taught from books called 'skor A' books published by Fajar Bakti and Longman and trained by 'people' who 'set the exam questions'.

I may have sucky colleagues, but I sure as hell know I have a much higher degree value than you do.

And guess what? I speak an extra famous internation language too!

i am not ken yi said...

solely to the lonely geek from ukraine

u think ukraine is ai hong bian ye is it? like nothing good you can gain here?

funny funny

i even managed to rotflol when i read see choo's name mentioned in that geeky post..ahaha..well i bet u r one of the rich kids urself.so wat if ppl wanna do business while at the same time maintaining their good results.if they falter later on,that will be their fault and not you for crying out loud. not everybody was born with a silver spoon in his or mouth u kno.an extra income is always welcome.if u r so kaya urself,support their business and be a good samaritan.

and its even funnier claiming you are someone you are not.i bet you are that geeky student with geeky nerdy specs.ho hum.

about those scholar students,well they dont have rich uncles and aunts,gong gong,po po,lon po po to support them here. and many of them come from middle class family. and dont just point your pointy fingers towards the bumis how about those who received fund from M*C?u shudnt be biased!

euro trip huh,so the bumis need monetary help from the govs to support their trips,well then the non bumis got their money from where? rich enuff to go anywhere with their own money,then they dont need scholarship,i guess.

harh,i need to sleep now coz i have an appointment wif see choo tomorrow.bye.Ha Ha.

Anonymous said...

Im LW Lim, I did not post any comment on this blog. Someone is using my name illegally. I was told by someone that I posted something on this blog, that is the reason I inform you that LW Lim will not be involved in any internet blog. I have not time for this internet blog!!!

Anthony said...

This is LW Lim, I did not post anything on the blog. I have no time for this!!!

Taptrick said...

Haha, you're right as always POTS.

I am SOoooOOO going to get it from them anonymouses.

Starting with Glad I Got Out Of There.

Anyone else ?

Anyway, i cant comment much right now, got to go on a holiday trip in 30 minutes.
Will do so when i'm back 2 day's later.

SOme keep em' coming. Hope you dont mind POTS.

I love intelectual discussions filled with rigour and virtuoso. :)

Anonymous said...

I believe every University in the world in every Course have all these category of Rich,party-goers, nerd, part-time worker students.

Anonymous said...

my pity to this lonely geek. i assume he is a wierd guy who is immature and always out-cast himself from the social life. jusT complaining the whole world but himself. probably he jus can't stand his surrounding friends live better than him.

he critics students who are more lucky than him probably bcos of jealousy.

he then critics students that are not so rich and have to do extra job to support their daily life but he didn't mention most of them are amongs the best students in CSMU.

he again critics on the 'lazy' teacher when he did not even mention the good teachers that i think that equally good as other teahers from other countries. i believe students from local uni also judge their teachers who is bad and who is good right?teachers are not god they are not perfect. you don't know u ask.then they will teach.
he crictics on patients. oh my.... i would assume either the patient he approach is still in ignorance stage of his disease and don't want to be disturb, or he aproach with the wrong way (too rude!)or even probably the way he dress is really "dirty". because as i know most of the russian patient would at least talk to you when u ask.
IF YOU FAIL TO BRING A GOOD IMAGE TO YOUR PATIENT. NO MATTER WHERE YOU GO NO PATIENT WILL LET YOU TOUCH!

needless to say. stop complaint read more. practice more. YOU ARE WHO YOU ARE NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE. with the attitude like this no matter where you go, you will complain.
last friendly advice, GET A LIFE, GET ALONG WITH PPL AROUND YOU AND LEARN FROM THEM!

Anonymous said...

my pity to this lonely geek. i assume he is a wierd guy who is immature and always out-cast himself from the social life. jusT complaining the whole world but himself. probably he jus can't stand his surrounding friends live better than him.

he critics students who are more lucky than him probably bcos of jealousy.

he then critics students that are not so rich and have to do extra job to support their daily life but he didn't mention most of them are amongs the best students in CSMU.

he again critics on the 'lazy' teacher when he did not even mention the good teachers that i think that equally good as other teahers from other countries. i believe students from local uni also judge their teachers who is bad and who is good right?teachers are not god they are not perfect. you don't know u ask.then they will teach.
he crictics on patients. oh my.... i would assume either the patient he approach is still in ignorance stage of his disease and don't want to be disturb, or he aproach with the wrong way (too rude!)or even probably the way he dress is really "dirty". because as i know most of the russian patient would at least talk to you when u ask.
IF YOU FAIL TO BRING A GOOD IMAGE TO YOUR PATIENT. NO MATTER WHERE YOU GO NO PATIENT WILL LET YOU TOUCH!

needless to say. stop complaint read more. practice more. YOU ARE WHO YOU ARE NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE. with the attitude like this no matter where you go, you will complain.
last friendly advice, GET A LIFE, GET ALONG WITH PPL AROUND YOU AND LEARN FROM THEM!

sl said...

it's not the students' fault...it's more of the the malaysian gov system...

i'm sure most of the students have good stpm/A-level results before going to ukraine.

it's just that they are also the products of a different system, just like, hmm.. POTS and myself, we are a bit luckier maybe i followed a supposedly a beeter system (still, the system sucks).

if the gov has a good policy (education and health ministry), these students would have been offered decent courses in malaysia.

U think if POTS was offered a scholarship in cambridge years ago, he would have chosen a malaysian degree? these students are the victims of the system, maybe just like us.

some are of great quality but so far, most that we have seen here are still, as many said, below par.

Anonymous said...

Dear Taptrick,

You are probably the best USM could produce, thats why your own dean had decided to send his child to CSMU instead..the same goes to HKL's Director, Klang GH director, Johor State Medical Director ,the Perlis State Medical Director and etc.
Are you aware of the stereotype directive from Ismail Merican, is what your whole medical doctor team dances too..why do you dance to the tune of ismail merican? Better you do check the dirt on Ismail Merican's 9Bio project before you even do the tango..Just because Ismail Merican says russian grads are bad, you from your proud USM should have a better sense of humour.
The same goes to the USM doctor from serdang hospital who blundered with the autopsy for "Kugan", the detainee who died in police custody..Come on brother, snap out of it and see the world as it is.

I stand by my claim earlier of Dr Lee Wei Lim by the following track record of CSMU grads over time:-

1)Professor Dr. Ivoulsou graduated from CSMU in 1973 is currently the
Secretary General of Ministry of Higher Education, Scientific Researches and Professional Educations (Tchad).

2)H.E. (Dr.) S. Magita
Machage (Kenya)graduated from CSMU in 1983 is currently "His Excellency", Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of Republic of Kenya Russian Federation, Ukraine, Byelorussia and Kazakstan

3)Professor Dr. Wassim Kalaajieh from Lebanon,graduated from CSMU in
1988 is currently the The Head of the Department of Pulmonology,
Phthisiathry,Clinical Immunology and Allergology of the Lebanon
State University,
Vice-President of the Association of physicians

4)Dr. Abdul Kajum Tutachil of Afghanistan that graduated from CSMU in 1977 is currently The Head of the Surgery and Neurosurgery of the Afghan Army and Academy

5)Professor Dr. Salarzy G.M. (Afghanistan,graduated from CSMU in
1977)is currently the President of the National Health Institute of Afganistan.

6)Dr. Jean-Pierre N. Goth who graduated from CSMU in 1980 is currently a Professor of Urology and The head of the Urological Hospital Meaux,France.

7)Professor Dr. Kennard Mohabir (UK, graduated from CSMU in 1980)is a Honorary Professor in the University of Health and Hygiene (UK)(member of King’s College of Surgeons )

8)Dr. Ngo Van Dinh of Vietnam, graduated from CSMU in 1982 is currently the Vice-Chancellor of Studies and Scientific Researches of the Thaibinh Medical University, Vietnam.

9)Dr. Fahami Mohamed
Kaied (Yemen, graduated
from CSMU in 1983)is currently the The Director General of the Ministry of Health (Yemen)

10)Dr. Yehia Huaidan
(Yemen, graduated from
CSMU in 1983)is up to date the Director of the Central Clinical
Laboratory of Yemen.

If Dr.Lee Wei Lim made in 2005, many more from CSMU and even Russia were already on the International platform when TapTrick was still in diapers..No offence USM grads, just see things objectively.You grow on your own potential, where ever you are from. You could make the difference to yourself.

Lets not be blinded and start carrying out directives from superiors saying CSMU and Russian grads are bad.Lets teach and treat them well with a warm welcoming hand.

All the Best to All the aspiring hopes. Do make the best of yourself-

Anonymous said...

well what to do? we malaysians in Moscow and Russia are just some foreign rich suckers making their wallets a little fatter. And guess what? They use all the money we give them to renovate THEIR school, buy NEW BOOKS and NEW EQUIPTMENT for their own students.

Russian/ Ukrainian education is not the problem... seriously. It's just the respective "english mediums" that is. No offence, but it's like setting up a Tamil medium in UM for Indian students, and getting all the prof or lecturers that speak tamil to teach.

Face it, they don't give shit in english medium. After all, it's not their patients that will die later aint it?

Anonymous said...

that really funny guys..
its your own fault for being bunch of pathetic loosers..
i too study here in this pathetic country.. but i survive..
i too did practical in this country. but i manage to learn a lot more than u could think of. its all depend on yourself. u have to show the doctors that u r willing to learn. if u show this, the doctors will definitely help you. during my first few days doing my practical, the doctors totally ignore me, but, when i show them that i want to learn, i take a step forward, and ask the nurses, doctors and all the hosp officer for help.. by the end of the day, i manage to show them, that i am afterall better than their own local students..
for that, i gain respect. all the doctors, teach me, they even trust me to do many kind of procedures. i even mange to accompany patients for consultation with different specialist.
all u people do here is complaining about your miserable life.

owhh come on guys..
move your butt, stop complaining..

there's a proverb saying,
masuk kandang kambing mengembek..
and the rest i totally forgot.. but the point is.. we have to adapt, try to look inside the people, learn what u have to to to adapt in other people life style..
and for god sake, please, leave that pathetic, kampung brain of yours behind.
if u can accept others, they will accept you..
don't be such a pathetic looser.

i myself was study in a well known uni back in malaysia.
what i learn is.. its all depend on yourself.. u have to work hard to get what u want.. back in malaysia, the lecturer will ignore you if you; yourself didn't show any effort to study. the same thing happen here.
the main prob is, language barrier.


its ok to study in pathetic country.. even Indonesia postgraduates are way worser than us.. (sorry)

for the better, or for the worst.. i do think that you should stop complaining. get your ass moving.. ok?

See Choo said...

since my name is in the article,i would like to say something... ya,i'm doing business by cutting hair every weekend,and "thanks alot" for the free advertisement...
most of the things u said are true,but by posting tis article won't help to improve the system or the students...why don't you come out with some good ideas to improve ourselves and to prove the MO n HO wrong,not all students from csmu are incompetent. we r all in the same boat,by writting such an article will only cause havoc in csmu,now the article it's becoming a racial n religious issues,everyone is pointing finger at each other...We r all malaysian far away from home,we live as a family here...
instead of complaining about ur own "family member",why dun you do something to help(exp:i'm joining a practical workshop tat organized by our 5th year students,n we welcome anyone who r interested)
No point to "kutuk" and complaint,do something man... u categorized me as business freak, i dun care bcz i think tat i'm doing favours for a lot of frens out there,and i'm glad tat i'm doing it :)

USSR is better than Malaysia said...

1) criticising is much easier than fixing the problem. therefore you chose the easy path.

2) anonymosity prevails, it's easier to critic behind a dark veil. i challenge you to reveal your identity to conform to the sayings "berani kerana benar".

3) i know see choo personally. i can vouch she actually get straight A's for her exam (straight 5 actually), and yet she chose not to put her pictures at the Dean's office because she doesn't like the publicity. Now if she can get straight A and still cut hair, she's definitely better than any students hands down.

avantgarde said...

I'm a local obstetrician in a busy GH, supervising up to 30 house officers at any time and I can testify to the shortcomings of most Russian grads in Obs & Gyn. Most do not have Obs rotations in their universities or are not allowed to conduct deliveries because the Russians won't allow it.

Come on... Qualified without any obstetric experience? Some truly can't tell apart a high risk from a low risk pregnancy. Their practical skills are sorely lacking.

I stand behind POTS on this issue.

a senior jpa scholar in mma said...

obviously POTS correspondent is my junior. first of all, dear mma jr, do be patient. you are having a mid life crisis i might say. later on, u will realize, it is not the system that makes u a good dr or med stud but it is u urself. u are ur own creator in meds school. i.e, i did my summer practical with students from galway! they know nothing about a simple case of homonymous hemianopsia!! i was lie, ok.... u had ur neuro posting haven't u? and he said.. well.. i study just to pass the exam.. and the exam was a mere 2mths before the practical!! lets give him a standing ovation for passing the exam.. and.. dear mma jr, when ur in ur 4th 5th 6th yrs of study, u will know a lot!! i guess the tests u are talking about would e of biochem or pharma. but pharma, the 2 lects are strict as hell.. even if u cheated, how will u pass the oral tests! yes, we have oral for every tests there are. and if u think their english is sub par, u are dead wrong! well, i know i will be a good dr.. if not great.. i know i know a lot, and i am confident with my skills.. yea, OB&GYN is a bit on the downside, but i will work hard for it!! i promise

Anonymous said...

i just hope that i never see u Kenyi.....ull be sorry bro..for making something small ..look so big...lol...i think u r lack of attention..tryin to grad some attention ....by this...get ur self a life..

Anonymous said...

Dear Avantgarde,

How are we supposed to 'improve' our skills in O&G if we're requested to do them during practicals in Malaysia, yet the Heads of Departments(esp in O&G) specifically told us that 'we are not allowed to touch the patients, we can only observe'??

We're supposed to learn and practise all practical skills during our attachments but most departments in Malaysia won't let us do anything. And even if we're allowed to, we have to let the local med students and training nurses and hosp attendants do what they want first(they have the priorities), and we only get to do what's left over(if there's any)..

Tell us, how do we get to learn if Malaysia's treating us like that, and now blaming it on us??

Anonymous said...

First of all,whosoever that wrote this blog,you really have guts but no brain.I am a 5th year student and i can't believe that someone that received STPM 3A 1B would be so idiotic to write something like this.Do you know that in a way you are jeopardizing the image of good students' from CSMU and MMA?let's be honest here,i believed every university has its pros and cons and produced good and bad students as well.so,in the first place,you shouldn't be so judgemental because im sure you no better than lots of students in CSMU.im sure you realized that there is no perfect university in this world and it really depends a lot on yourself to be a good doctor.about the clinical examinations and so on,im sure if you willing to learn in CSMU,the teachers are willing to teach.in the first place,did you attach yourself to any doctors in CSMU?did you make the initiative to learn things on your own?i say this base on my own experienced and even when i was in 2nd year i did practical work and attached myself to many doctors here.where were you at that time?i witness numerous surgeries and even participate in surgeries as assistant in surgeries 7th hospital.where were you at that point?and im sure there are also students like me doing the same thing,but just that you are happily staying in the hostel and God knows what you were doing at that time.so you shouldn't rule out the possibilities that there are many good students out there are learning on themselves but just that they do know show it to other ppl.just not the way like you,acting as if you are the best students here.im not sure how many students actually paid for exams but for sure those are just minorities.so stop being naive and stop being so selfish.regarding the issues on student's making some small business like selling pau and so on,i believed those students are quite outstanding as well as i know some of them personally and i know they paid a lot of attention in class and even work their ass off to be the best students here.i would just say that you dont understand how difficult for certain students that have to make up their life just to continue their studies in a foreign countries and there is nothing wrong about it as long as they managed their studies..what would you say to those ppl that study in countries in UK and etc and spending times playing games, travelling and working part time job as well?i would not say that they are not studying just by the fact that they play games at home.im sure you realized that there are times for studies and there are times for taking a break and those are very productive if you know physiology well enough.and you shouldn't have bring up the issue regarding religious as well.you should have realized that as a sensitive issue.but anyway,i wouldn't want to spend too much time going on arguing on your stupid blog as words are just useless to clarify ourselves.just do the best and i pitied those good students out there and got themselves classified together as the same bunch of ppl that know nothing about medicine.that is just so unfortunate.by the way,i received 4As in my STPM 2003 and i believed everything depends on yourself to make a difference.if you are so good,proof to others that you would be one of the future best doctors around the world.and last but not least,im glad that i do not know you KEN YI.you are just another loser.so i hope you understand the seriousness of this issue and how it will reflects on you and the rest of us.its totally baseless.i think anyone with reasonable intelligence should know not to believe so much of what is said in blogs.Shame on you.

Anonymous said...

The russian and ukrainian system is nothing but a BIG JOKE !!!!!

Melissa said...

*sighs* Can never escape the drama.

Just to point out that I have heard of several who (despite studying in another university) when asked where they came from, they say CSMU - especially when performing badly during practicals.

But that does not excuse us students. Attitude is everything. We have great teachers who are overqualified doctors but paid peanuts for someone with knowledge such as theirs. The reason they are unable to impart knowledge efficiently is due to the language barrier. That and the students' attitudes towards lessons.

If we had been taking the Russian medium, we know all too well that examiners like Diachenko and Krutikov would have our heads. Admit it.

I do not pretend to be a good student and I admit to have wasted a good part of the first few years being too laidback. I had awesome teachers but lacked inspiration, though I see it changing now.

There are excellent students here who strive to rise above others. To condemn the students here who go clubbing, drinking, gambling, etc... All I can say is, dude, open your eyes. It's the same -everywhere- be it UK, US, or Malaysia. Not that I condone the acts, but it's a fact of life.

Needless to say, Ukraine has brought a lot of trials into my life, but with them, lessons I could never have dreamed of learning if I were to stay at home still clutching on to my mother's apron strings. I, for one, do not regret coming here and I will miss this place dearly when I graduate.

P.S.: Have the guts to use your real name if you want to say something incendiary instead of hiding behind a pseudonym. :)

AVYW said...

I'd like to say a few words on behalf of those who try to make the best out of what we have, where we are...We Russian students do know how to take history, it's just that it's very different from the Malaysian way.They don't know any anamnesis morbi or vitae, and we don't understand all their shortforms...can we call this a cultural difference?and a lot of our classifications are different from what they are used to, so when they ask us theirs, it's natural that we do not know.And vice versa. Also, the drugs we learnt and the drugs they use in M'sia are different, plus they use commercial names, which we're not familiar with.They don't know the drug names we mentioned too...

But, from my experience of doing attachments in Malaysian hospitals, it's the specialist whom we followed around that seemed very impressed with what we learnt(we were only in 3rd year then), we can diagnose a simple disease by auscultation, palpation and percussion, without the help of those sophisticated technologies. He was very fascinated with our way of deep palpation too, by which we can feel all the individual organs of the abdominal cavity.(But he told us, it's very useful for specialists, but it'll be hard for us when we start working, as we'll have to relearn the easier and more basic Malaysian way, ours is too advance, it's a pity).

And also we know ECG more than the local HOs and even some MOs.The hospital was having a post-grad course of ECG, and some MOs looked down on us as they thought we don't understand anything, and one MO tried to force us to join another separate seminar for hosp attendants(HAs). Can't imagine how satisfied we felt when we saw the looks on their faces when we proved to them we already know that stuff that they're gonna teach to the MOs and HOs, and told them we already learnt them in our 3rd year internal diseases class(equivalent to local Uni 2nd year).

Please do give us some time to get use to the system, we'd very much appreciate if local doctors who are familiar with the system would help us to adapt faster, instead of criticizing and looking down on us.Put yourself in our shoes, if you're sent to work in Ukraine or Russia, I'll bet that you would be 'not knowing anything' too....BUT, you'll be treated much better here, than we'll be when we go back to Malaysia...

syaima (501) said...

to fake kenyi..
stop whining and get a life.. what are u implying to get by telling the world how horrible ur uni are.. thanx to u the already stink CSMU has become the ultimate shitty place for medical students to be in.. yes we all know the truth. we all know its not the best place in d world.. we dont need u to tell us that.. as for the students here.. so what if they want to do nasi lemak or nasi ayam business??.. they also want to cari makan.. thanx to them we get to eat malaysian food.. if u hate it so much, then dont buy it.. so what if see choo cuts hair every week? its cheap and she's really good at it.. i know coz my fren went to her and she looks sooo gorgeous with the new hair cut.. it didn't affect her performance anyways.. she's a good student and excels in her studies.. extremists?? excuse me!! at least we have faith in God.. how bout u? so what if these guys use the scholar money to buy stuff.. they earn it by getting good grades.. heck, i'm not a scholar student.. i'm not a rich kid either.. i watched them use their money.. but i never complain.. who cares?? dont be such a sore loser.. what if these people got married and have kids while they r still studying?? they can still get good grades and manage their life here.. i only have respect for them.. can u do the same thing? i dont think u can.. that's way u criticising them.. u in ur small small world.. looking at other people like u r more superior than them.. like u deserve better than them.. bad karma huh? like ur karma is going to be better after back stabbing ur fellow colleagues like that.. oh no.. i forgot.. u will never call urself our colleague as u r way better than us, right??.. u low life.. FYI.. we are all on the same boat.. good students.. bad students.. who r u to tag people like that.. i bet u dont have many friends.. look urself in the mirror and ask urself why u dont deserve better.. if u hate CSMU so much.. than go find other universities.. waste ur money somewhere else for all we care.. and what do u mean by 'I'm not an imposter who plans to destroy CSMU's image'?? u already blow it to smithereens.. and unlike u coward who use other people's name to cover urself (poor kenyi) i'm not afraid to state my own name.. go study u loser.. stop jaga tepi kain org.. boleh??

Anonymous said...

POTS is Jonathan Goh...well at least i think so...if this comment doent get approved, then that shud surely confirm it!

he sure fits the profile..has no friends and is basically a loser,..been dumped around from group to group cos basically no one can stand his antics...

he's a snob, he openly insults you to your face and talks bad about everyone he gets close to behind their backs, he cant be trusted and as it was revealed in synapse last year..

i call on those people from synapse to run an expose on jonathan goh...the SCUM of CSMU!

Product of the System said...

Dear Jonathan Anonymous Goh,

I am so Jonathan, macha!

I have no other comments about you.

Anonymous said...

are you one of the csmu'ss who will switch off the lights at 8:30 pm in conjunction with Earth Hour?
I think it’s a noble aim - switching off your lights as a vote for Earth and making your statement for the climate and concern for global warming. However I must warn you folks of a potential medical and health side-effect of Earth hour.
Imagine, you are expected to turn off the lights for one hour, light candles, and turn on the radio/music.
What do you think will happen? Yes, expect a surge in childbirth statistics nine months from now!
After all, getting pregnant is really easy and I am told it involves only three steps IN CSMU:

1) Woman: “Oh God!”
2) Man : “Oh baby!”
3) HOSTEL COMMISSION APROVES FOR A TWO SEATER ROOM

You have been warned.
this ARE the end results- when boy meet girl
it's been said there IS more than 150 abortions done within malaysians studying in csmu.
think again
EARTH HOUR#

dracoolarboy said...

pots ur juz so stupid....
i can even believe tht u actually obtain gud results in ur stpm,hw could u...??? when u actually crap about other people’s personal life....
i feel pity for u and ur parents...


people doing bussines, or doing whatsoever in their life is their own right...
who are u to judge them...???
as long as they study, it's up to them to do wht they like after the class hour....
who are u to judge the whole system in any country...???
u haven't even finish studying yet...!!!

let me go through this one by one....

1st.
i agree tht there are a lot of students doing other passtime activity here but, it is all after their class hour...
i really dun how it bothers u...??
I agree on u shaima, if u dun like it so much dun frekin’ buy it…
They won’t loose any penny at all….
Wht they are trying to do is juz sum extras for their ocket money while having pefect time managing their studies as well….
most of them are competent student...
eg: see choo...

2nd.
u were saying tht we have extremists here...!!!!!
tht is totally a dumb statement...
for attending the sembahyang or church or bhajan is a any humans personal right....
how can u question a person’s faith...!!???
those are juz the minimal things tht students can do for their religion...
even the lecturers here can understand and respect this and on top of tht are really adapted to this, why can't u...??
and i bet anyone in this world can respect another person's belief...
define please from ur point of u wht is extremist...???
if it is juz a crappy definition from ur mom or dad, then it is so unacceptable...

3rd.
if u r questioning so much on the activities here, why dun u and ur nerdy geek bitches and bastards organise sumthing...
we’ll see how beneficial it will turn out to be, and how helpful they can be to the future doctors…..
honestly they sound so useless and selfish…
even u call them kiasu’s, so hw can they help others in future…??
How can they be gud doctors…??
On top of tht how can they become acceptable human beings by being kiasu….???

4th.
the patients here are reluctant to u bcoz of ur fucktup level of russian...
dun blame other for tht, blame ur parents for passing all the stupid, dumb factor genes to u...
my russian language is gud and the patients here always co-operate with me....
even better i read russian med books, they are all gud...
i really can't understand why u can actually critisize the russian edu. system when there are abundant of theories which are from th russian professors...
this actually realy shows that u are the one who has not being studying....

5th.
people having any PSP's or any other gadgets, or any branded stuffs is bcoz they can afford it...
their parents can provide it, i am really sad if u can have those, tht's ur luck, maybe tht's ur karma for being an asshole perhaps even in ur pass life....

6th.
please respect peope who are married here...
they are all gud students...
they work hard for wht they are deserving...
and it's an educatinal loan which means they have to pay back when they are working...
beore talking so much tht ur MOM and DAD's tax money are being abbused, do u knw u tax system in malaysia...???
do ur parents pay their tax accordingly...??
think of wht u say b4 critising other people's family...
would u be happy if people talk bad about ur family too....???

7th.
CSMU have their own achivemets too...
the proff of the department of path anatomy(proff. zagarulko) here extracted surfactant a.k.a sukrim(surfactant krim)...
which actually made ukraine to be the among the country tht actually produces surfactant on it's own...
his research is widely respected in Europe…
he always does collaboration researches even outside CSMU
tht is not sum crappy research like extracting sum vits frm sum banana like wht mpst of the proffs in malaysia are crapping with 'herbal' products...
dear stupid pots,
u should be talking on how to improve the whole system, not complaining...
u wrote a lot of things on other peoples personal life which means, U HAVE NOT BEING PAYONG ATTENTION STUDYING AS WELL INSTEAD MINDING OTHER PEOPLES BUSSINESS...!!!

the 2 thing tht u should always respect and be very sensitive about is religion and race, reluctantly u opposed these important things...
this puts u so low and so shallow...!!!
obtain facts b4 u do any writing...
wht u imposed here is juz hatred and jeolousy...
wht are u actually trying to achive here...???
wht are u trying to kindle in CSMU...???
any racial hatery...??

THINK.......!!!!!

Anonymous said...

some of your comments true..but some not make sense at all.i quite surprise that u still do med with this mental state..Why dont u appreciate t whom who involve in extra positive activities &t same time perform well..learn to approach life in positive way..u must learn how to make our life perfect,Nothing will change by putting fault in everything n everyone..n nobody poss anyone to study in CSMU..u still can go to any "good universities" in world..where ther is a will sure ter is a way..

Anonymous said...

jonathan goh.. haha shud have known, watch ur back chink, i know where u live

Anonymous said...

First of all,wat ever said was by someone who's so narrow minded n lack of maturity.wat ever been done by d students is deir own business n dey r still excellin in deir studies.If dey r not good enuf,dey wont be here at all.And wat r u crappin bout d system here?It's not 100% perfect but its so much better den other countries.Here,one class consist only bout 8-10 students.isn't it far better den Msia?Wat r u complaining bout ppl gettin married and having babies?dey r so much better den u who r sleepin with ur gf.dont u think so?stop bitching around and be a man.You dun have to show ur inferiority by trying hard to make up things wic r not true..'I'm not an imposter who plans to destroy CSMU's image'?? You r actually destroying your future with ur craps..coward

i am not ken yi said...

hey u guys surely come here and comment before reading pots' sidebars and profile is it..

he is already working (pots). he just posted those 2 posts and he din write that stuffs.

all ur hatred shud be toward that scum only ..okie thanks

Anonymous said...

DEBATE DEBATE DEBATE!
Isn't this what the gov do?
Is this going to be of any help?

BusinessFreak said...

Oi people, POTS is not Jonathan Goh, POTS is just the owner of this blog who published the work of the newly-circumsized Ken Yi who turned out to be Jonathan Goh. Seriously, before you people start firing away, know who you are aiming it. If you are trying to condemn the person who condemns Russia and Ukraine, then POTS is the one your are looking for but if you are looking for the insider who provided the info to POTS of which POTS published,then Jonathan Goh is the one you are looking for. If however, you are a "religion extremist" or "clubbing maniac" who wanna set Jonathan Goh physically straight, you don't have to leave a comment in this blog because it sores my eyes to read them. I'll just give you a hint: 4th hostel room 504b. Do anything you want with him, just leave his neighbour the Cindian alone. BTW, those who know who i am, please don't spread my identity around, thank you.

Back to the matter at hand, this discussion sure has become interesting with local students bombarding us foreign students. I am speaking from personal experience; yes, it is true that most of us do not clerk as well as local students do, but guess who will do better diagnosing those burmese and bangladesh patients who do not speak any of your languages? If is true that most local student has very impressive clerking skill, i managed to get the help from a final year local student during my attachment to show me how to clerk a patient, he did an impressive job clerking the patient for about an hour and ended with 4 diagnoses but he couldn't read the MI signs on the patient's ECGs...

I seriously feel that local students have superior knowledge compared to us in terms of clerking and also differential diagnosis, but i feel otherwise about their clinical skills. I've seen local students asking a patient to stretch his arms parallel to the floor and the students tapped the arms and were apparently checking for rebound signs....? on a separate occassion, a UM HO tried to use a torniquet when drawing ABG until he realized i was staring at him in awe. There are still many flaws which i encountered from local HOs and MOs but some are too specific to post here because it will jeapordise my future carrier if that MO/HO happens to be reading my comment.

I would like to thank POTS for creating this blog because this blogged actually pushed CSMU students to do something about their weaknesses. Kean Seng together with Mayuran even started a workshop which will help all the future graduates to get orientated with the system in Malaysia. We even have the lectures by Prof. Izam or whatever his name is. So to the local students, we know our weaknesses and we are willing to improve ourselves, how about you?

BTW, we from CSMU have an upper hand in diagnosing bangladeshies because we are learning the language for the Pakistanis here. Ab kiase ho? pencut and albeda! wahahah

Anonymous said...

Dear blogger ,

Im not gonna comment about our education system here in Ukraine , as I have nothing to prove. We , students of CSMU clearly know where we stand when it comes to that - and we have a bright future ahead of us.

Im gonna concentrate on YOU , my fellow blogger who is sadly , a CSMU-ian....

Clearly , from your statements u express yourself to be a lowlife , someone who doesnt understand the meaning of integrity. And of course , pure temperamental idiocy .Not only are ur comments exaggerated , they are racial and religiously - prejudiced ... two very very sensitive issues especially regarding us Malaysians , since we are from a multi-racial country .

Anyway , lets not beat around the bush . By u blogging about the university your studying in ..... i mean ..... boy think..!!! aren’t u jeopardizing your own future ... besides the 1000's of other Malaysians you are bringing down with you . You also included names of students , ...... purely unethical my friend.

.......a tip.........

learn how to blog before doing so


...idiot. - excuse my language


U mentioned about karma. Well , trust me ... by doing this injustice , payback's gonna be a REAL monster... hopefully a patient doesn't die in your hands.

I really feel like identifying myself - and of course , humiliating u so badly that u will come looking for me -then i will have the peace of knowing your existence ... and of course , teaching u a very good lesson.

3A1B STPM and this is your product???? - please , don disgrace the Malaysian examination system.
Clearly , your mom and dad failed in bringing you up.

come closer .... i have something to whisper to you......



"watch out , we "macha's" are looking for you. ;-)"

yeah said...

i m a friend of jonathan goh.he does hv friends. he is a nice and talent guy. usually special guy is easily get misunderstanded by others.

Anonymous said...

to POTS, pls respect ppl 's life and you are so free to critize ppl why dont you take action and become another dr lee?since u r so smart, and intelligent, go achieve it.pls think of how good u are before commemt on ppl.

second,to whom that look down on us,u are so proud of urself and ur knowledge is it? as a good doctor MO should treat everyone as equal no matter where they come from. teaching them with ur grand knowledge not only good for us, but also for the patients. government already mistake to send us to these country, because of the system different, teaching are different,and no opportunity to practise our practical skill, back to msia wanna learn somemore critised by doctors.who can really stand this kind of feeling. v thrive for so hard on studies and try many ways to improve ourselves, ended up with one word, incompentency...pls all the doctors put down all the bias, and help the students instead of keep on critise them...

Anonymous said...

i was taken aback by the stupidity of POTS...its sad to know that you could not benefit And take the good side of the ukranian system and the millions of good things it has to offer...but instead u chose to be the victim of the system...
name me one place u feel can offer u better? dont give me fancy UK or OZ shit coz u and i both know that its the same thing everywhere....

-asher d great-

im proud to say i might be the certain percent of the so called nerdy group u claimed...but i too have my equal share of fun and entertainment along side my studies...

so guess ur really sad!! that u cant enjoy the better of both worlds...

along with the countless seniors of CSMU who r doing way better than the others at our local hospitals i too will prevail with my friends....

and abt HTAR yes il have to agree the doctors were very helpful...but believe it or not i could answer their questions every each one of it better than the local UM n USM grads....
and also got a lil of the insides of the local uni's from them
...
in the end its how an individual makes the best out of every situation he or she is in...
so u too learn ....

Anonymous said...

saiko la ini macha..

Yi Min said...

All this debate will come to no conclusion, except for one very important fact that all CSMU students have to bear in mind: that we lack in practical skills. So we must work harder than local graduates. I understand that doctors in Malaysia tend to label us and have prejudice against us, but I’ve read in POTS’ other blogs, someone said “A willing teacher is of no use unless the student is willing to learn.”, and another doctor said “Any houseman with poor knowledge but a good attitude is redeemable, but one with no aptitude of attitude is beyond rescue.”
There will be an upcoming workshop (next year) to discuss about practical skills and protocols used in Malaysia, and anyone can join to find information and present and discuss.
So rather than sitting here n blaming the system, pointing fingers at others, why don’t we improve ourselves, read more, and try to learn more during the summer attachment? Then we’ll exchange knowledge, strive to improve, and remember, it’s a teamwork. So let’s gear up and prove to the doctors in Malaysia that although we might lack skills, but we are ready to learn and ready to mend what we lack. With a positive attitude, I’m sure there will be doctors who are willing to guide us.

Friend of JG said...

PLEASE READ THIS COMMENT,my fellow CSMUians...

To the first Anonymous who posted about Goh....

I guess u r really an IDIOT.POTS is J.G? wow...u r so "Sherlocke Holmes!" it also shows to others that u r someone who is shallow,narrow minded n lack rational thinking.of course malaysian drs,who read ur comment, esp.POTS himself would be greatly astonished n impressed by u-the EXAMPLERY csmu student.They will think Csmu students r all judgemental,vengeful,n short tempered like u.Sad.Instead of thinking how to solve the problem,u accuse a fellow CSMUian without any logical explanations.Shame on u!!!

Firstly,J.G is not staying with a Cindian.This shows that business Freak is just another sore loser who acusses people without even knowing some basic facts.

As a matter of fact,J.G din not get dumped out of his group every year.Only during 1st year.During 3rd year he changed group to help his groupmate.She is getting married n her husband(from another group) wants to be in the same group.Nobody in the group is willng to change group.But guess who offered to help.I dun think a SCUM would do that for a normal hi n bye friend.Every CSMU students know that changing group is difficult bcoz u have to adapt to new people etc,and yet he did that for his friend.

He is definitely not a racist who will write bad stuffs about Bumis.Look at the many Malay friends he has.

He is definitely not narrow minded n obviously not stupid enough to write an article criticzing his own uni.He works hard,study international books.If seeing is believing,go n see how he studies in Lecture(i bet,u r 2nd patok too).Go n see how he performs at classes or ask his groupmates.He is very generous in knowledge n helps his gropumates if they have any problems concerning studies.Many friends n teachers acknowledge him as a good student.Even that notorious ONCO teacher praised him as intelligent n smart.

Btw,he is definitely not a loser.He has friends here(CSMU) n more in local uni.He is a good cook,u should try his Yee Sang.He is a talented artist too.I admit,he has his shortcomings n weaknesses-but at least he is not a coward like u who badmouths other people on a blog without a pseudonym.

Come on la ,man.nobody is perfect,including u,my dear anynomous.Try to see good in other people.YES.even in SCUMS n wretches n people u hate.The existence of judgemental people like u is the very reason y this world is full of incessant disputes,war n discrimination.The existence of people like u in CSMU is the reason y people look down on us in a ethical aspect.(not only bcoz of our lack of knowledge).

Next time,if u guys insist of badmouth-ing people do some homework first!!!Except for the first two paragraphs, all the following contents aplly to the Business Freak of 1st April too.
I really want to reveal myself,but,unfortunately u two might manipulate people to whack me too.All the best my dear friends.

P.S.Please post this comment POTS.my friend really need some justification.

Friend of JG said...

PLEASE READ THIS COMMENT,my fellow CSMUians...

To the first Anonymous who posted about Goh....

I guess u r really an IDIOT.POTS is J.G? wow...u r so "Sherlocke Holmes!" it also shows to others that u r someone who is shallow,narrow minded n lack rational thinking.of course malaysian drs,who read ur comment, esp.POTS himself would be greatly astonished n impressed by u-the EXAMPLERY csmu student.They will think Csmu students r all judgemental,vengeful,n short tempered like u.Sad.Instead of thinking how to solve the problem,u accuse a fellow CSMUian without any logical explanations.Shame on u!!!

Firstly,J.G is not staying with a Cindian.This shows that business Freak is just another sore loser who acusses people without even knowing some basic facts.

As a matter of fact,J.G din not get dumped out of his group every year.Only during 1st year.During 3rd year he changed group to help his groupmate.She is getting married n her husband(from another group) wants to be in the same group.Nobody in the group is willng to change group.But guess who offered to help.I dun think a SCUM would do that for a normal hi n bye friend.Every CSMU students know that changing group is difficult bcoz u have to adapt to new people etc,and yet he did that for his friend.

He is definitely not a racist who will write bad stuffs about Bumis.Look at the many Malay friends he has.

He is definitely not narrow minded n obviously not stupid enough to write an article criticzing his own uni.He works hard,study international books.If seeing is believing,go n see how he studies in Lecture(i bet,u r 2nd patok too).Go n see how he performs at classes or ask his groupmates.He is very generous in knowledge n helps his gropumates if they have any problems concerning studies.Many friends n teachers acknowledge him as a good student.Even that notorious ONCO teacher praised him as intelligent n smart.

Btw,he is definitely not a loser.He has friends here(CSMU) n more in local uni.He is a good cook,u should try his Yee Sang.He is a talented artist too.I admit,he has his shortcomings n weaknesses-but at least he is not a coward like u who badmouths other people on a blog without a pseudonym.

Come on la ,man.nobody is perfect,including u,my dear anynomous.Try to see good in other people.YES.even in SCUMS n wretches n people u hate.The existence of judgemental people like u is the very reason y this world is full of incessant disputes,war n discrimination.The existence of people like u in CSMU is the reason y people look down on us in a ethical aspect.(not only bcoz of our lack of knowledge).

Next time,if u guys insist of badmouth-ing people do some homework first!!!Except for the first two paragraphs, all the following contents aplly to the Business Freak of 1st April too.
I really want to reveal myself,but,unfortunately u two might manipulate people to whack me too.All the best my dear friends.

P.S.Please post this comment POTS.my friend really need some justification.

Friend of JG said...

PLEASE READ THIS COMMENT,my fellow CSMUians...

To the first Anonymous who posted about Goh....

I guess u r really an IDIOT.POTS is J.G? wow...u r so "Sherlocke Holmes!" it also shows to others that u r someone who is shallow,narrow minded n lack rational thinking.of course malaysian drs,who read ur comment, esp.POTS himself would be greatly astonished n impressed by u-the EXAMPLERY csmu student.They will think Csmu students r all judgemental,vengeful,n short tempered like u.Sad.Instead of thinking how to solve the problem,u accuse a fellow CSMUian without any logical explanations.Shame on u!!!

Firstly,J.G is not staying with a Cindian.This shows that business Freak is just another sore loser who acusses people without even knowing some basic facts.

As a matter of fact,J.G din not get dumped out of his group every year.Only during 1st year.During 3rd year he changed group to help his groupmate.She is getting married n her husband(from another group) wants to be in the same group.Nobody in the group is willng to change group.But guess who offered to help.I dun think a SCUM would do that for a normal hi n bye friend.Every CSMU students know that changing group is difficult bcoz u have to adapt to new people etc,and yet he did that for his friend.

He is definitely not a racist who will write bad stuffs about Bumis.Look at the many Malay friends he has.

He is definitely not narrow minded n obviously not stupid enough to write an article criticzing his own uni.He works hard,study international books.If seeing is believing,go n see how he studies in Lecture(i bet,u r 2nd patok too).Go n see how he performs at classes or ask his groupmates.He is very generous in knowledge n helps his gropumates if they have any problems concerning studies.Many friends n teachers acknowledge him as a good student.Even that notorious ONCO teacher praised him as intelligent n smart.

Btw,he is definitely not a loser.He has friends here(CSMU) n more in local uni.He is a good cook,u should try his Yee Sang.He is a talented artist too.I admit,he has his shortcomings n weaknesses-but at least he is not a coward like u who badmouths other people on a blog without a pseudonym.

Come on la ,man.nobody is perfect,including u,my dear anynomous.Try to see good in other people.YES.even in SCUMS n wretches n people u hate.The existence of judgemental people like u is the very reason y this world is full of incessant disputes,war n discrimination.The existence of people like u in CSMU is the reason y people look down on us in a ethical aspect.(not only bcoz of our lack of knowledge).

Next time,if u guys insist of badmouth-ing people do some homework first!!!Except for the first two paragraphs, all the following contents aplly to the Business Freak of 1st April too.
I really want to reveal myself,but,unfortunately u two might manipulate people to whack me too.All the best my dear friends.

P.S.Please post this comment POTS.my friend really need some justification.

Just another reader said...

Dear POTS and all those bitter people out there, let us remember that it doesnt matter where a doctor graduate from... be it Ukraine, Russia, UM, UMS, Ireland, UK... we are all the same in the end. Knowledge can only bring a person so far... it is good that if a HO started out with good basics, but his or her personality, attitude and willingness to learn is more important... to those of u who think you are unlucky to study in a poorly reputable university, dun think less of yourself and make sure you work twice as hard as the other graduates later... all i can say is that everyone has their own opinions and freedom of speech. I think that Mr POTS is merely voicing out his opinions and should not be bombarded with insults or some psychoanalysis thingy.. we all have different views and there is no need to make this blog into a bitter battlefield

BusinessFreak said...

Ei Jonathan, stop praising yourself. We all know that whoever posted something good about you is in fact yourself. We also know that you are very afraid right now because those machas are really going to go after you after their 'kabadi' game. By the way, try reading properly next time, i said "his NEIGHBOUR, the cindian". Not your ROOMIE the CHINA MAN! Also, to all the machas out there, you can take down his gay neighbour if you want. Wahahah.

Since 'someone' listed Jonathan's characteristics, i guess its time for me to reveal what i know about him as well.(unfortunately i know him personally)

The Jonathan Goh i know has bloody weird habits. I am not sure whether he is a conservationist or whatsoever.. he uses tea leaves to soak his clothes(according to him, tea smells good) and uses salt in place of toothpaste(apparently colgate is cancerogenic). I don't care about the fact that he sleeps naked but it sure nauseates me to learn that he masturbates before sleeping and leave it to dry and i am not sure whether he cleans it the following that. Another known fact about Jonathan is that he rarely takes bath(thats why he didn't complain about the frequent water crises that we have here) which granted him the nickname "christmast tree"(he sheds dandruffs like snow on chrsitmast).

No, Jonathan has very few friends, if not none, that explains why he can always be seen standing outside the common hall whenever someone he knows holds a party of which he is not invited. He has a very unique way of showing his anger to someone, eg: throws your sandals into the bath tub full of water or the toilet bowl, he even wore his roomie's undies and kept them back safely into their cupboard after wearing them(without washing them).

I would say that he is better than me in term of knowledge(who cares, i am a business freak afterall, i'd prolly be the one to sell the organs of the patients that local grads kill), but i wouldn't say that he is very intelligent or hardworking(he was never a top scoring student, but hey, to come and think of it, i was one of the top students 2 years back?). He is a typical show off who thinks he is great because he does better than all his underperforming group mates. Trust me, i know his quality, i've seen him perform and heard him answer... just average. Lecture eh? that reminds me that he is very famous in lectures, especially therapy lecture on friday where the lecturer would call out his name because he is always absent..
so how exactly to spot him doing anything during lecture in the lecture hall?

Arts.. no way, i can draw better than him anytime, but at least i have better conscience than to sell my work to foreigners at a high price by claiming that they are the original chinese masterpieces like Jonathan does.. yeah, classifying himself as a geek and not business freak?

Maybe you think that i am a sore loser for posting all this(which i doubt you will if i post my identity here, but its not time yet), but this is my way to get even with him for discussing other peoples' private matters..

P.S; no one really knows whether Jonathan is a good cook because everyone knows that he is notoriously dirty... damn, i'd rather drink off my toilet bowl than to taste his yee sang, at least i'll have a milder infection..

BusinessFreak said...

Before i venture too far into this battlefield, i would like to clarify that although i am from CSMU, i do not represent the people from CSMU or CSMU herself, because if i am a typical CSMUian, CSMU would be rebranded as "Crimea State Merchant University".

I know where i stand and i do not wish to tarnish CSMU's image with my own medical incompatibility(yes yes yes, i should've studied harder but i just can't resist Benjamin Frnaklin's HUGE smile). There is only a fraction of us Businessfreaks here, we will study just enough to graduate but don't worry, we won't start killing all those malaysian patients. We'll prolly continue with our international trade, earn enough money and support to run for election and hopefully become the next Health minister in malaysia(now, thats why businessfreaks like me want to graduate).

That said, i wish anyone who read my posts will not judge CSMU through me, i don't mind if you judge CSMU through people like Jonathan... just keep me out of the equation. I am just enjoying POTS sarcasm and this battlefield. Wahahah.

Zerobyte (TAM) said...

To those that wrote, read, commented on this blog, please read and understand my comments with an open mind.

Many have heard the fate of CSMU derecognition in the year 2005, whom most have given irrational, bias and illogical critics about the uni and its 1500 international students whom consists mostly of malaysian students in their clinical years. Sadly, i have to add to these list of people are professionals themselves, including doctors from a wide range of specialities, MOs' and HOs' , and yet its sad to even think that critics appear without witnessing the true stories happen behind those gates of CSMU.

First and foremost, i wish that this fake ken yi please step up and appologize to not only those he critics badly, but also to the other fellow students of CSMU as his comments were irrational, immoral, vulgar to most and immaturely spoken. I am a student here myself and i witness many oddly happenings happened, but it does not mean that it could not happen in other Universities including local universities themselves. Fake ken yi, i pity u as although u are about to graduate as a doctor in just another years time, ur thoughts, ur spirit and ur attitude does not reflect the assences needed to become a respected doctor. To shoot others is like to express that they are bad and u are good, a holy angel, perhaps u even think that u are god . Everyone do things are only they themselves could explain why they did it. But its really not our business to meddle in the first place. Or simply said, please don be "kepo". Are we university graduates or are we public toiliet cleaners that gossip everyday about other peoples business. I really do wish that we alll could grow up from our immaturity to pursue our course as future doctors, not to add to the alraedy stinking CSMU name.

Secondly, the reason why students from CSMU is really bad is not because of lack of practical skills, but merely agents fault of bringing student of less qualified to enter. i've been hearing stories of students getting As' Bs' and C' for spm and still come here to study as a doctor. In the first place how on earth u all think u can be a doctor with such bad results. The reason why the qualification to enter other universities are so high is because a doctors career needs dedication, passion... not a person with medical knowledge but only thinks of money. And in the second place, i know to enter here u will need a clearance letter from the ministry. How on earth the ministry people approved these bunch of unqualified students. Or the allegations on Malaysia goverment are true ( receiving bribery ). It is so shameful to even think that i'm going to work with the same goverment that critize us having low level of knowledge due to the unqualified courses done by CSMu, and yet in the first place they are the one approved this university in the year 2001, futhermore approving the usage of agents to bring more students here in hopes of improving the rates of doctor to patients in Malaysia. It is so sad. Now we are accusing of our ex prime minister of making flip flop decisions, and yet from begining our own education ministry making flip flop decisions, exp the recogniton and derecogniton of CSMU, the education in Malay or English issue, The meritocracy system, the Dasar ekonomi baru system, and so on.

Thirdly, to all those racist and extremisist people, please do not hide the truth from people. In interractions in CSMU that i observed for 4 years, i can see that it really does exists. Malays hating chinese, chinese hating malays, indians hating malays and so on. It is a shame for us Malaysians to even behave like this for our nation is known to be a multi racial, maybe it is in the past. i know political situation in malaysia is so bad that these issues are coming back and dirtying our minds as young and pure intelligence that soon will be part of the same ruling goverment. And with more and more extreme comments being published, this condition i fear will get worst day by day. to what ends this arguements have to continue? Of course no race is perfect but as a citizen of a multi racial country, we should do our part to prevent our country crumbling into ruins like whats happening in Ukraine, at its doom because of the arrogance of the Ruling bloc and parliment. do we all forget what happen before when we are ruled by the british and in those times we are just peasants, not lawyers, doctors, businessman, engineers like what we are now. i fell sorry for those who behave like an extreemist or racist for i enjoy being in the company of many races or different religion, without any bias between us.

Fourthly, to Malaysian offiials and doctors, please do not discriminate us. most of us are low grads but yet it does not mean we should not receive training as house officers. its already known to public that malaysia are practising a mediocre system of public health even before the first batch of students even enter CSMU. remember those early 90s when many cases of doctors wrong doing like those scalpel left in a woman's abdomen, catheters left in cavities, wrong prescription of drugs. even i myself a victim of malaysian poor healthcare during my secondary schooling years. i myself was diagnosed by a MO in a goverment polyclinic with colour blidness even though the results of the test was invalid. Futhermore i can see the shades of green and red with no avail and i past my driving licence test with almost maximum mark ( i don remeber but if im not mistaken it was 48 out of 50). and during my opthalmolgy rotation, i discuss this problem with my teacher and after a few test, she just smiled at me and say i do not have colour blindness, it is just my colour perception is less sensitive and recommends me to take multivits. SO, malaysian doctors, please do not be too arrogance with ur claims of us as bad doctors. malaysia from Mahathir's time of PM have high rates of medical errors and it is the duty of current medical doctors to teach their future colleagues proper practicals skills to help reduce errors.

Lastly, i hope to the one that critize Jonathan goh so much, don u just pity him. of cause everyone of us hear many rumours about him, and rumours always starts with truths, but even if he pissed u off by talking to others about ur secrets, he does not harm u, ur life, ur business or whatsoever related to u, and u have just to destroy his dignity by mentioning many gross behaviour which may or may not really reality. If we are citizens of United states, im sure his parents will already sent their lawyers to sue u for "saman malu". Like i have said before, if u are a future doctor, please behave urself. u are acting even worst than my 8 year old nephew, and even i believe if the cat in front of first hostel is a human, it can behave better than you in terms of personal relations. Get a life dude! find a russian girl to get laid with since u have only perhaps 1 years left of ur studies. Then i will comfirmm u that u will forget about what Goh did to you.

Its a pity though, to those that have written the blog and comments anonymously, are u all cowards or what? if u have any problems feel free to discuss it with ur real identity. And we can see what we can do with it. or if u think u are having mental disturbances, feel free to consult the Pscychatrist in first hostel ground floor or just head over to the Hospital No 1 behind 5th hostel next to the Forensic medicine department ( for those of u not from CSMU, the hospital is a very large mental illness facility). Shame on you people who reveal to the world your dumbness

-ZEROBYTE-

molodoi said...

haha.. all of you already knew tat this pots gut is full of shit... but still, u guys wanna argue about your ability, your skill or whatsoever, whether it is enough or not to work as ho back in malaysia.. u guys are really stupid, esp all the csmu students that try to prove tat u guys are better than what everybody thinking, INSIDE THIS BLOG BY POSTING ALL THESE COMMENTS!haha.. dont be such a pussy, just do your best here, and when ur back in msia one day, dont stop learning, try your best ang just TADAH WHATEVER TAT THE MO WILL SAY! face it, and you will make it.. but of course our knowledge must be good.. dont give up now, dont get angry now.. i'm to a product of this goooood russian system! ;)so come on csmu...chin up!

Liv Isabelle said...

The post in response to this entry: http://mademoiselleisabelle.blogspot.com/2009/04/words-from-heart.html

Ohfortheloveofgod said...

Oh for the love of God

Everyone has an opinion.

So if you dont like it, too bad
So if you like it, Good for you

So everyone who is offended by this blog, take a chill pill n digest it.

Doctor Thomas said...

TO ALL MALAYSIAN DOCTORS. I’m a local dr myself n these are my humble opinions regarding CSMU. I’m not biased or anything, I’m just analyzing some facts from comments posted by CSMU students themselves. Here are some points to ponder…
1) The education and student evaluation system of CSMU is of doubtful quality.” I would say that he is better than me in term of knowledge”,” he was never a top scoring student, but hey, to come and think of it, i was one of the top students 2 years back?)” This was a statement from BF(business freak).How come someone of less knowledge be a top student, while someone with more knowledge was never a top scorer? Possible explanations-To become a CSMU top student u would probably have to bribe (buy them some Vodka or undertable money), or “Kiss the Examiners Ass”, or just copy answers from the examiners book or lectures, or have good connections with the people in charge of selecting top students. Either one of it. I doubt a corrupted exam system like this would produce competent doctors.

2) The mentality of CSMU students. “but believe it or not i could answer their questions every each one of it better than the local UM n USM grads....”A statement from anonymous of 2nd April. This shows that CSMU students are pompous and arrogant. It is a known fact that most of them a way below par(even I had some experience), and even if this anonymous is so SUPERB.Sadly, he is the minority.

3) The character of CSMU students. ”if however, you are a "religion extremist" or "clubbing maniac" who wanna set XX physically straight “. A statement from BF. Here one could only extrapolate that many CSMU students are barbaric and ruthless. Instead of giving advices,negotiating,they would rather resort to violent physical activities. What if they have conflicts with their future patients or colleagues? Ya. Probably set things physically straight again. If they are physicians by then, stethoscopes would be their nun-chakus or whips. If they become surgeons, the scalpel would end up as their Samurai sword to slash anyone who they don’t like. Pity the patients and senior officers who have to put up with such acts of violence. If they flood local GHs,I suggest the next audition for ONG BAK to be done here right in a local GH in Malaysia. There are so many substantial action stars amongst us. Better, we can even produce an action film more violent and entertaining than ONG BAK!!! Imagine, doctors in lab coats doing a round horse kick,or silat ,or Muay Thai on a sick patient. Isn’t that entertaining? Haha. Maybe we can win an Oscar or a Golden Globe for that film, thus showing to the world-Malaysia Boleh!!!

4) The reasons why CSMU students chose to do med in the first place. “who cares, i am a business freak afterall, i'd prolly be the one to sell the organs of the patients that local grads kill”. Another statement from BF. Well, extrapolate again from that statement. Most CSMU students chose to do medicine for the money. And they are probably desperate and immoral enough to even sell organs. Again, from the phrase criticizing local grads, one can see the arrogant and sarcastic attitude of a CSMU student. By the way, if they had chosen medicine as a way to earn money, they are wrong. Being a doctor in Malaysia,(if you’re not consultant level or don work in private sector),you probably end up in the middle class or upper middle class economic status. Well, unless you sell organs, of course.

5) “FIRST,DO NO HARM.”This is a very basic principle of health care. Obviously, most CSMU students do not understand, let alone abide to this simple principle. Look at all the harm they are doing to POTS, local grads, and even their own course mates. Criticizing, badmouth-ing, back-stabbing people. A great example-Business Freak.

6) TREAT PEOPLE HOW YOU EXPECT PEOPLE TO TREAT YOU. Since, CSMU students can’t even show empathy and forgiveness to their fellow course mates, I doubt they can show empathy or basic respect to a patient. Since, you guys can’t even tolerate or forgive your course mates, do not expect kindness or forgiveness from us “outsiders”. Serves you all right, that the majority of doctors look down on you. Lack of knowledge and worse still, lack of moral.
My humble suggestion-the MMC make an exam specially for CSMU students. I, would prefer the Malaysian health care suffer from a shortage of doctors, rather than flooding it with CSMU grads.
Honestly ,I don’t hate you guys at first. But with all those comments posted, I’ve chosen to see in a different , albeit “DIM” light. Honestly ,I believe there are good students and people amongst you. All my statements are directed to the majority of your university. It is sad, but, this is the UGLY TRUTH.

Doctor Thomas said...

TO ALL MALAYSIAN DOCTORS. I’m a local dr myself n these are my humble opinions regarding CSMU. I’m not biased or anything, I’m just analyzing some facts from comments posted by CSMU students themselves. Here are some points to ponder…
1) The education and student evaluation system of CSMU is of doubtful quality.” I would say that he is better than me in term of knowledge”,” he was never a top scoring student, but hey, to come and think of it, i was one of the top students 2 years back?)” This was a statement from BF(business freak).How come someone of less knowledge be a top student, while someone with more knowledge was never a top scorer? Possible explanations-To become a CSMU top student u would probably have to bribe (buy them some Vodka or undertable money), or “Kiss the Examiners Ass”, or just copy answers from the examiners book or lectures, or have good connections with the people in charge of selecting top students. Either one of it. I doubt a corrupted exam system like this would produce competent doctors.

2) The mentality of CSMU students. “but believe it or not i could answer their questions every each one of it better than the local UM n USM grads....”A statement from anonymous of 2nd April. This shows that CSMU students are pompous and arrogant. It is a known fact that most of them a way below par(even I had some experience), and even if this anonymous is so SUPERB.Sadly, he is the minority.

3) The character of CSMU students. ”if however, you are a "religion extremist" or "clubbing maniac" who wanna set XX physically straight “. A statement from BF. Here one could only extrapolate that many CSMU students are barbaric and ruthless. Instead of giving advices,negotiating,they would rather resort to violent physical activities. What if they have conflicts with their future patients or colleagues? Ya. Probably set things physically straight again. If they are physicians by then, stethoscopes would be their nun-chakus or whips. If they become surgeons, the scalpel would end up as their Samurai sword to slash anyone who they don’t like. Pity the patients and senior officers who have to put up with such acts of violence. If they flood local GHs,I suggest the next audition for ONG BAK to be done here right in a local GH in Malaysia. There are so many substantial action stars amongst us. Better, we can even produce an action film more violent and entertaining than ONG BAK!!! Imagine, doctors in lab coats doing a round horse kick,or silat ,or Muay Thai on a sick patient. Isn’t that entertaining? Haha. Maybe we can win an Oscar or a Golden Globe for that film, thus showing to the world-Malaysia Boleh!!!

4) The reasons why CSMU students chose to do med in the first place. “who cares, i am a business freak afterall, i'd prolly be the one to sell the organs of the patients that local grads kill”. Another statement from BF. Well, extrapolate again from that statement. Most CSMU students chose to do medicine for the money. And they are probably desperate and immoral enough to even sell organs. Again, from the phrase criticizing local grads, one can see the arrogant and sarcastic attitude of a CSMU student. By the way, if they had chosen medicine as a way to earn money, they are wrong. Being a doctor in Malaysia,(if you’re not consultant level or don work in private sector),you probably end up in the middle class or upper middle class economic status. Well, unless you sell organs, of course.

5) “FIRST,DO NO HARM.”This is a very basic principle of health care. Obviously, most CSMU students do not understand, let alone abide to this simple principle. Look at all the harm they are doing to POTS, local grads, and even their own course mates. Criticizing, badmouth-ing, back-stabbing people. A great example-Business Freak.

6) TREAT PEOPLE HOW YOU EXPECT PEOPLE TO TREAT YOU. Since, CSMU students can’t even show empathy and forgiveness to their fellow course mates, I doubt they can show empathy or basic respect to a patient. Since, you guys can’t even tolerate or forgive your course mates, do not expect kindness or forgiveness from us “outsiders”. Serves you all right, that the majority of doctors look down on you. Lack of knowledge and worse still, lack of moral.
My humble suggestion-the MMC make an exam specially for CSMU students. I, would prefer the Malaysian health care suffer from a shortage of doctors, rather than flooding it with CSMU grads.
Honestly ,I don’t hate you guys at first. But with all those comments posted, I’ve chosen to see in a different , albeit “DIM” light. Honestly ,I believe there are good students and people amongst you. All my statements are directed to the majority of your university. It is sad, but, this is the UGLY TRUTH.

Neurosurgery MO said...

ATTENTION, to anyone involved in the medical field, here is an interesting case history. I’m sure you will enjoy this.
History- A blogger posted an article from an insider from CSMU. Following that, CSMU students posted blasphemous comments accusing POTS the blog owner (Ridiculous Sign), and criticizing local grads, local senior doctors and all with sarcastic and emotionally-charged comments. They have absolutely no respect for basic human privacy rights, and freedom of speech. The people responsible for the comments were then detained by the ISA and underwent full body check-up.
Physical examination-They look like any other Malaysian. Careful scrutiny, however. shows a mildly enlarged cranium which sounded tympanic on percussion. There was also mild flushing on the malar area. Fundoscopy revealed papilledema. Hmmm? ICP increased, but why?
AXR-reveals a small liver? Hmmm.“Liver Cirrhosis or just Kecik Hati?”
CBC-reveals increased inflammation markers, trace amounts of alcohol.Hmmm? Cerebral injury associated with Delirium Tremens?
CT of brain-grossly distended ventricles.Hmmm? Hydrocephalus,cerebritis…?
Lumbar puncture-pleocytosis without increase of PMNs.Subsequent culture reveals a new strain of prion- Stuck-in-ukraine-us I-hate-study-ius.
Whit matter biopsy-lymphocytic infiltrates associated with fulminant necrosis and atrophy.
Diagnosis-CSMU syndrome. Well,it is a schizophreniform disorder characterized by irritability
(as we can see from the comments),episodic delusions(some actually think they are so SUPERB) and aggressive violent acts and intentions. It is associated with infection of a rare prion species- Stuck-in-ukraine-us I-hate-study-ius which in turn is associated with eating of undercooked Soviet beef. Hence, syndrome is epidemic amongst students from Ukraine or Russia. Major diagnostic criteria-isolation of the prion,and demonstration of cerebral necrosis and atrophy.
Therapeutic Management-primary quarantine of the patients . A course of high dose anti-pschycotics e.g. Haloperidol for at least 3 months. A training or workshop for them before they start as HOs.Don’t forget pschychiatric evaluation too. If symptoms persist, use a STRAIGHT-JACKET.If they prove incompetent, proceed to surgical management.
Surgical Management-DO A PROFFESIONAL EXAM. If active necrotic lesions are found (failed students),resect it and throw it into the disposable bin. If the lesions re-appear treat it with either laser ablation or Gamma-knife. Then provide carrier option guides, they can make good butchers, with their knowledge of basic anatomy. Or maybe middleman between Russian Mafias and our Alongs.Smuggle some artiilery, ammos. Prostitutes ,drugs or whatever.
Prognosis-If the CSMU students kept quiet and study harder, I wouldn’t have written this. I’m just so sick of their comments. Instead of countering me on this blog, just study, prove me wrong during your summer practicals. I’m not referring to all CSMU students, but to the majority. So, I don’t think I’m wrong in voicing my opinion.

Neurosurgery MO said...

ATTENTION, to anyone involved in the medical field, here is an interesting case history. I’m sure you will enjoy this.
History- A blogger posted an article from an insider from CSMU. Following that, CSMU students posted blasphemous comments accusing POTS the blog owner (Ridiculous Sign), and criticizing local grads, local senior doctors and all with sarcastic and emotionally-charged comments. They have absolutely no respect for basic human privacy rights, and freedom of speech. The people responsible for the comments were then detained by the ISA and underwent full body check-up.
Physical examination-They look like any other Malaysian. Careful scrutiny, however. shows a mildly enlarged cranium which sounded tympanic on percussion. There was also mild flushing on the malar area. Fundoscopy revealed papilledema. Hmmm? ICP increased, but why?
AXR-reveals a small liver? Hmmm.“Liver Cirrhosis or just Kecik Hati?”
CBC-reveals increased inflammation markers, trace amounts of alcohol.Hmmm? Cerebral injury associated with Delirium Tremens?
CT of brain-grossly distended ventricles.Hmmm? Hydrocephalus,cerebritis…?
Lumbar puncture-pleocytosis without increase of PMNs.Subsequent culture reveals a new strain of prion- Stuck-in-ukraine-us I-hate-study-ius.
Whit matter biopsy-lymphocytic infiltrates associated with fulminant necrosis and atrophy.
Diagnosis-CSMU syndrome. Well,it is a schizophreniform disorder characterized by irritability
(as we can see from the comments),episodic delusions(some actually think they are so SUPERB) and aggressive violent acts and intentions. It is associated with infection of a rare prion species- Stuck-in-ukraine-us I-hate-study-ius which in turn is associated with eating of undercooked Soviet beef. Hence, syndrome is epidemic amongst students from Ukraine or Russia. Major diagnostic criteria-isolation of the prion,and demonstration of cerebral necrosis and atrophy.
Therapeutic Management-primary quarantine of the patients . A course of high dose anti-pschycotics e.g. Haloperidol for at least 3 months. A training or workshop for them before they start as HOs.Don’t forget pschychiatric evaluation too. If symptoms persist, use a STRAIGHT-JACKET.If they prove incompetent, proceed to surgical management.
Surgical Management-DO A PROFFESIONAL EXAM. If active necrotic lesions are found (failed students),resect it and throw it into the disposable bin. If the lesions re-appear treat it with either laser ablation or Gamma-knife. Then provide carrier option guides, they can make good butchers, with their knowledge of basic anatomy. Or maybe middleman between Russian Mafias and our Alongs.Smuggle some artiilery, ammos. Prostitutes ,drugs or whatever.
Prognosis-If the CSMU students kept quiet and study harder, I wouldn’t have written this. I’m just so sick of their comments. Instead of countering me on this blog, just study, prove me wrong during your summer practicals. I’m not referring to all CSMU students, but to the majority. So, I don’t think I’m wrong in voicing my opinion.

Anonymous said...

I am a specialist O&G in govt service and come into direct supervisory contact with House Officers. With regards to this issue of House Officers from CSMU / Russia, perhaps some comments from someone who has to approve their training in O&G maybe relevant.
There are different types of CSMU/Russia graduates. Some are no doubt good students from the Form 5/6 govt schools here. Unfortunately, there are also those who are academically challenged students. These would not have been able to enter a medical school on merit but through $$$, made it to these medical schools.
It is these medical students who later become medical graduates and thus house officers who are used as the yardstick to measure all graduates from these medical schools. Unfair? Well, the good students tend to be safe doctors, the others are those disparagingly referred to in the index postings.
A safe doctor may learn to be a good doctor or realise that it may be better to be in a non-clinical field.
I have had the pleasant task of supervising such house officers, but the frank and sometimes unpleasant task of advising them of their severe limitations. Unfortunately, a busy unit is no place to relearn much less reteach medical school, time is simply not available. The sad thing is that these good students - safe doctors would have been on par if not better if they went to a different medical school. Yes, a few, very small minority, toughed it out, dealt with it and adapted well, but they remain a small minute group. I have seen less than 5 over these years.
Those who would not have qualified for medicine anyway except for $$$, well, these form quite a big group from CSMU/Russia.These are the reasons for the blanket opinion of CSMU/Russia graduates.
All are labelled by the lowest common denominator, it is and will always be a question of safety. If we are not sure whether we are dealing with disadvantaged good students or just $$$ students, it is safer to assume that they are $$$ students. Safer for the patients, who are our primary responsibility.
While I understand the economics of revenue generation via education especially medical education, I have to deal with the end-product which by a huge majority is a by-product rather than an unpolished stone or even a lump of useful coal.
I stress as mentioned in some of the postings that medicine taught in the local language is probably very high quality, so either learn the lingua franca or be marginalised in any country. Basking in reflected glory merely reinforces the poor opinion already existent.
As for doing your practicals training as medical students during your breaks, well, I repeat, the patients are our primary responsibility, then the affliated (local) medical school students get priority. This frankly leaves crumbs or less for the students doing elective postings.
Some postings are promising, there are suggestions of doing something to assist in a positive manner.
My suggestions will be in similar vein:
1) get trustworthy feedback from medical officers in govt hospitals here in a structured manner
2) form mutual study groups to discuss and evaluate these feedbacks
3) make genuine connections with govt hospitals about the type of learning you want to get during your electives - by this, I mean talk to the specialists/head of department of the place you want to go and not just appear with a piece of paper saying you are doing your practical training - how on earth are we to vet your credentials???
4) come in a small group once you have made the above arrangements, its for morale and support when the comments are unkind.
5) if you are able to arrange (4), and benefit from this, then try to arrange to have local specialist (who directly supervise house officers) to go over and meet the students in CSMU/Russia an eye-opening experience bothways.
6) finally give honest advice to anyone contemplating going over there to do medicine.

My comments thus far reflect the reality of the situation I deal with. These are made without prejudice and with an interest to a solution.

Cheers and good luck.

Another product of the system said...

May I suggest some tips for HOs or medical students who blamed HOD/ MOs for not giving them a chance to examine pts or perform procedures:
1. Observe the clinical skill/ procedure performed by ur senior
2. Read the skill/procedure from internet or textbook and memorize all steps
3. Practice the skill/procedure in your mind at least twice.
4. Familiar yourself with all items required to perform the procedure
5. Volunteer to do it under supervision whenever there is a chance, show your enthusiasm. Remember, never perform a procedure unless you are confident.

IMG said...

thanks another POTS! Your comment is the most constructive of all admist this entertaining online drama.

May I humbly suggest any docs here to kindly list down procedures that HOs are expected to perform during each rotation? This might be too much to ask for from doctors as busy as all of you, but i'm sure all foreign graduates will greatly appreciate your help and dedication in teaching.

Thanks in advance.

Have a nice day everyone =)

Taptrick said...

Its not like its a suprise that Russian and Ukrainian Medical Universities produce bad doctors when most Malaysian that are there just fool around drinking vodka and eating caviar.

There are a lot of bad apples there. But there are good one's too. Unfortunately, the good apples are hard to come by and only form a minoirty. Pity really...

Therein lies a question...if there are more bad apple's produced than good apples, why not just cut down the apple tree?

Its sad for the potential good apples but there are better apple trees out there.

Anonymous said...

Stop being Jokers you guys..I'm in the fifth year & got to know that over 700 Malaysian medical students currently studying in Egyptian Medical schools have only SPM qualification and gained entry into the first year.Got to know these when i went back for the break...wonder what will be the yard stick for the quality then??coming around the corner soon i guess. Lets not forget the Indonesian grads too..

Lets join hands with the russian, indonesian, bangladeshi, myanmar, pakistan and egyptian malaysian grads and have some kind of clinical skill teaching workshop in Malaysia during the break.I dont mind paying for it..It will help us familiarise things with the local environment-Can anyone work the idea through??
Calling for MSC!!

Anonymous said...

Quoting TapTrick.."Its not like its a suprise that Russian and Ukrainian Medical Universities produce bad doctors when most Malaysian that are there just fool around drinking vodka and eating caviar"...Haha....drinking vodka & caviar...that sounds like a line from the movie "Enemy At The Gates"...Get original dude....haih...sad sad..:P

Dr Benesan said...

Get laid, study harder and transfer into med school in europe or australia or malaysia.
You shouldn't judge fellow students, malaysia is rater repressive and is not like most of the world. People make their own choices and will bear the consequences.

Anonymous said...

whoever wrote the above articles is a total dumb loser who always see hatred in people,i hope ur generation will be cursed forever u filthy loser!!

Anonymous said...

KILL JG KILL JG KILL JG !!!!!

Product of the System said...

To the two anonymous above,

Your comments really show the contents of your character.

You are only justifying my criticisms.

Thank you.

Alan said...

Who doesn't believe that the price of a product justifies its quality? You can't expect to buy a Mercedez with the price of a Proton. Neither can you expect to buy a penthouse with the price of a low-cost house. There are justifiable reasons for pricing a product, not merely according to the whims and fancies of the manufacturer.

When it comes to medical education, there's no exception. Our ill-informed government thinks that it's an economically-prudent decision to send scholars to Indonesia/Russia/Ukraine for a medical degree, and of course in so doing recognise their medical degrees. After all, instead of sending one student to the UK, you can send 5 to these countries, what's so bad about that? It makes perfect sense, doesn't it?

Well, wait till you see the quality of these doctors who qualified from Indonesia/Ukraine/Russia. They have brought so much shame and disgust to the profession which was once thought very glamorous and solely fit to be practised by the creme-de-la-creme. Now, any Tom, Dick and Harry can do medicine cos it's been transformed from a brainy to a brainless profession, thanks to these people. These people obviously have not enough brains for other professions in the corporate world whose margin for error is nil. Ironically, the margin for error in the medical profession has over the years evolved from nil to almost 100%. Thanks to BN, Malaysia memang Boleh!!!

When MMC wanted to derecognize the Russian universities, MIC as usual protested and turned that into a racial issue, for obvious reasons. I wish Samy Vellu and his cohorts would just allow himself to be treated by these doctors and nobody else. If he has genuine faith in them, then I guess Malaysians at large would follow suit.

What kind of idiotic country would send students to a country much less developed than herself to master the art of treating its people? On the contrary, Indonesians are coming to Malaysia and Singapore for treatment. Don't they trust their own doctors when the Malaysian government does? Why do we have to stoop so low and jeopardize the health of our people?

There are good reasons (race not being one of them) for Singapore not to recognize Indonesia/Russia/Ukraine medical schools. Whatever the reasons are, the Singaporean government cannot be stupider than the Malaysian government.

I vote for derecognition of Indonesia/Russia/Ukraine medical schools. Who's with me?

Anonymous said...

POTS: I can never stop feeling amazed by the immaturity demonstrated by many of your commenters, it's scary to think most of those are probably medical students/ doctors.

Taptrick: Few questions for you
1) why should we shut up and listen to you?
2) There are doctors who suck everywhere. Doesnt mean that all doctors suck. I might also add that some Malaysian doctors I've met suck at communication skills, being empathic, respecting patients choices, and trying to educate patients about their health conditions.
3) You mention that foreign bred doctors are "ALL VERY INCOMPETENT"? any concrete examples? What about rumours going around that Malaysian universities share exam tips around (albeit only amongst certain student groups) and passing marks get lowered every year because passing mark typically equals the lowest mark scored by the cohort?

Finally, please show yourself more respect than to succumb to personal attacks and sucking up even on the internet.

5th year medical student

Chirurgie said...

wow, an amazing thread that has enlightened me to this 'problem. I can believe some graduates from a University which does not conduct proper examinations etc to have poor practical skills.

however, a lot of medicine, be it in Malaysia, Ukraine or UK (where I studied), is learnt by yourself, as a mature adult and student.

The key factor here seems to be language, or rather lack of it. If any of these Medical Students still can't at least converse in broken Russian (or whatever is spoken locally, pardon my ignorance) by end of their 1st year, then they are not really serious about trying. If you can't even speak or at least attempt to speak to the patients in a language they can understand, is it any wonder they will refuse your examination of them?

Anyhow, Ithink in the end, both sides, slating and supporting the University have points. Fact is most European Universities do no spoon feed you, not even in UK where I was (something Malaysian mentality finds hard intially).

Beyond that, up to you (or in a small group of say 3-4 helping each other) get out and meet more lecturers/doctors and speak to and get permission to examine patients.

Good luck folks. I only wish you my best and if you have the determination to be a good doctor, you will be one some day.